Future of the Sheep Industry

Poorbuthappy said:

Not necessarily .
If it means they can be run mostly on grass and negate a lot of making/ feeding of fodder, and concentrate feeding, it can make a huge time difference.

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Global ovine said:

Absolutely.
With the benefit of hindsight look at what happened in NZ when farmers were peering over the cliff of doom.
Most cut back their stocking rates in an attempt to cut costs such as; less winter feed to conserve, less root crops, less fertiliser to apply, lower health bills and lowered labour requirements. If they did not change their management systems these reductions had no effect on profit (in the minus at that time) because costs per sheep stock unit (SSU) remained the same. Unless they were previously over stocked, their gross income per hectare was slashed accordingly.
Farms that did not keep up their maintenance fertiliser soon became evident to people who were not colour blind. Production plummeted.
Fortunately farmers had the emerging choice of breeders within their preferred breed between traditionalists and those using programmes designed to change sheep genetically for less cost and more production. These were very commercially farmed. Labour requirements went from 1 man to 500 SSU in 1980's to now at around 4000 SSUs.

Also about that time rotational grazing was being promoted in all its regional variations to gain efficiency of use and increase production.

The net result was farmers ran higher stocking rates because the grazing management grew more feed for more stock and better quality to take lamb weights higher. Fertiliser bills increased but became a smaller proportional cost of profit per stock unit.
More grass carried into winter reduced the hay/silage conservation costs and area needed for root crops. This had immediate savings in plant replacement costs and led to more reliance on contractors to carry such costs.
Grazing management led to less replacement pastures as pasture quality improved due to seasonal hoof and tooth treatment by larger mobs grazing for short periods.

Over the last 30 years, much of the flatter heavier soils have changed to dairying. Despite this the hill country has maintained the rate of improved production and profit as grazing management has become more precise locally and sheep genetics have opened up opportunities previously considered unbelievable, despite having the same breed name.

Farmers now are more business minded and consider change as normal as global market returns fluctuate Nobody owes farmers a living.

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Bury the Trash said:

and New Zealand had the likes of Sir Lockwood Smith working at the marketing ..

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Kiwi Pete said:

We all work at marketing!

Don't we??

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hally said:

I would like to think I pay professionals to do it on my hehalf

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Global ovine said:

Absolutely.
With the benefit of hindsight look at what happened in NZ when farmers were peering over the cliff of doom.
Farmers now are more business minded and consider change as normal as global market returns fluctuate Nobody owes farmers a living.[/QUOTE]


I took note of everything you said, apart from your last sentence.

Everybody owes Farmers a living. Just like everybody owes Doctors, Weavers, Skin Curers and Lime burners etc. etc. a living.

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Al R said:

There are”professionals” and “professionals”

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Global ovine said:

No, you previously had EU professionals doing the UK trade agreements. If the UK finds itself having to make trading deals outside of the EU, it will have to employ trained UK professionals with special trade envoys whom are highly knowledgeable about their sector. Such teams are not ready made to be picked off the shelf at a moment of need.
Foreign trade negotiators need a consolidated industry will behind them, i.e. farmers, processors and exporters all singing from the same hymn sheet.
Bilateral agreements have been known to take inside a year's time frame. Details such as biosecurity (Vet agreements) can double this time.
Multilateral agreements take years (CPTPP has taken 11 years so far and not yet ratified by all states), any new entrants have to accept the conditions negotiated by the original states.

Growing and processing food is just one part of the package when the customer is in another part of the world. What's more, that customer probably won't want it as it is consumed in the UK, as they won't have an oven and their seasonality of demand will be very different.

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Global ovine said:

@Agrivator
Are you stirring or do you live in a marxist state?

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Global ovine said:

No, you previously had EU professionals doing the UK trade agreements. If the UK finds itself having to make trading deals outside of the EU, it will have to employ trained UK professionals with special trade envoys whom are highly knowledgeable about their sector. Such teams are not ready made to be picked off the shelf at a moment of need.
Foreign trade negotiators need a consolidated industry will behind them, i.e. farmers, processors and exporters all singing from the same hymn sheet.
Bilateral agreements have been known to take inside a year's time frame. Details such as biosecurity (Vet agreements) can double this time.
Multilateral agreements take years (CPTPP has taken 11 years so far and not yet ratified by all states), any new entrants have to accept the conditions negotiated by the original states.

Growing and processing food is just one part of the package when the customer is in another part of the world. What's more, that customer probably won't want it as it is consumed in the UK, as they won't have an oven and their seasonality of demand will be very different.

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Global ovine said:

No, you previously had EU professionals doing the UK trade agreements. If the UK finds itself having to make trading deals outside of the EU, it will have to employ trained UK professionals with special trade envoys whom are highly knowledgeable about their sector. Such teams are not ready made to be picked off the shelf at a moment of need.
Foreign trade negotiators need a consolidated industry will behind them, i.e. farmers, processors and exporters all singing from the same hymn sheet.
Bilateral agreements have been known to take inside a year's time frame. Details such as biosecurity (Vet agreements) can double this time.
Multilateral agreements take years (CPTPP has taken 11 years so far and not yet ratified by all states), any new entrants have to accept the conditions negotiated by the original states.

Growing and processing food is just one part of the package when the customer is in another part of the world. What's more, that customer probably won't want it as it is consumed in the UK, as they won't have an oven and their seasonality of demand will be very different.

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Devil's advocate said:

Farming is different to other industries.

Especially on an over crowded island like the UK.

Farming produces food, the view, there are footpaths across farms, some land provides drinking water & the countryside needs mangement. Our public also like to know that farm animals are well cared for.

All the above make our lives far harder than those who farm on remote islands in the Southern hemipshere. Where you have the massive advantage of wide open spaces & a Government/poplation which lets you get on with it.

I think we will be paid in future for these things more in the future & that will a subsidy on my sheep. ie £25 a metre for rebuilding drystone walls, money for wildlife on the farm. I will just carry on & I don't think the sheep will need to pay. I like mine to manage my grass which is mostly used to produce hay for sale. and to graze cover crops & veg waste

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Global ovine said:

I So there is no way that the UK will be flooded with low standard produce unless the UK politicians and trade negotiators surrender their current import standards.

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runny egg said:

Just bare in mind that so far UK government has absolutely refused to protect Uk standards by “imposing minimum standards on imports” - they have been pushed and pushed to legislate against low standard imports but refuse to, the best we have so far is “it’s not our intention to allow sub standard imports”. However, (forget low standards) there are plenty of countries exporting produce to the UK at this moment in time with agreed standards inc Thailand for chicken and SA for beef, however the volume is limited by either tariff or quota or both, we can lift the lid on both. I’m currently in South America and they are getting excited. The government will defend this by saying consumers have the right to choice and farmers must command consumer support.

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beardface said:

But it’s the attitude we’re faced with. We can’t force people to think logically about uk ag if we don’t ourselves think, act or speak positively. If I said to packham and his mates that @Greythundercloudys farm can’t feed stock for 6 months without importing feed they would double there argument. My comment wasn’t backing there attitude. I won’t everyone to keep farming, but our message and attitude needs to change.

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sheepwise said:

These farms that are buying in feed are also bringing in fertility to the land. See so many ex dairy and livestock farms that now look so hungry because they are being run on so called low cost/low input systems.
I genuinely believe that post brexit (aka apocalypse) that the good farmers and stocksmen who are managing (thriving maybe too strong a word) at present will be the ones who survive, irrespective of whether they have to buy in a bit of feed or not.

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