Get used to them quick is my advice. Stick shift is soon to be consigned to the history books as something that wasn’t a bad idea but has now been superseded!
Autobox & Off Road
- Thread starter sawdust
- Start date
Exactly
That's got hee haw to do with what your claiming about everyone needs to get autoboxesExactly
rubbish
- Location
- Moreton-in-Marsh, Glos
It used to be argued that the main reason why European cars stuck with Manual Gearboxes was that we are really quite good at cutting gears and had a good history of making them.
I can't see why the Americans weren't as good at making them!
I think the reality was that fuel costs in America were so much cheaper and that they didn't worry about the fuel inefficiency that the old 3 forward, one reverse and a park position, auto gearboxes gave.
Especially before the toque-lock was invented for use with a Torque converter, which always allowed a huge inefficiency, due to transmission fluid drag (in effect no direct drive). This lock (which is like a clutch plate) cuts in, soon after any new gear speed is engaged to remove any slippage or drag that the Torque converter produces. In effect locking it in that gear in just same way as a Manual does. Thefeore there is no loss of power between the engine and wheels.
Modern Auto gearboxes are as efficient, if not more so than any Manual gearbox. They change gear at optimum times rather than when we think they should do so.
I can't see why the Americans weren't as good at making them!
I think the reality was that fuel costs in America were so much cheaper and that they didn't worry about the fuel inefficiency that the old 3 forward, one reverse and a park position, auto gearboxes gave.
Especially before the toque-lock was invented for use with a Torque converter, which always allowed a huge inefficiency, due to transmission fluid drag (in effect no direct drive). This lock (which is like a clutch plate) cuts in, soon after any new gear speed is engaged to remove any slippage or drag that the Torque converter produces. In effect locking it in that gear in just same way as a Manual does. Thefeore there is no loss of power between the engine and wheels.
Modern Auto gearboxes are as efficient, if not more so than any Manual gearbox. They change gear at optimum times rather than when we think they should do so.
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
I cannot fathom why a Ford Ranger would need lots of revs to travel at 10mph up hill in first high. First gear on the automatic is approximately the same ratio as second in a manual car. The stall speed of the torque converter is at 2000 rpm, so there will not be any torque converter slip at 2000 and above. At low speed under heavy load then the revs will rise to near 2000 if necessary. On the road, most automatics, cars or pickups, tend to run with the engine at between 1500 and 2000 revs and seldom below 1500. Why 1500? Because that is the minimum stable loaded running speed of most four cylinder engines and you will find the 'change down' indicator on many modern manual cars light up at 1500 as well.
The Ford six speed auto is a license-built version of the ZF 6HP box by the way. Its main fault is Ford software that makes is somewhat reluctant to change ratios at times. It has a fair gap in ratios between 2nd and 3rd, which is sometimes noticeable, mainly when towing 3.5 tons up hill with the 2.2. Second/third gear planetary is a weak point when used with tuned engines and racing. Apparently anything over 550hp will eventually cause the unit to seize, but that is hardly an issue with it fitted to pickups.
The Ford six speed auto is a license-built version of the ZF 6HP box by the way. Its main fault is Ford software that makes is somewhat reluctant to change ratios at times. It has a fair gap in ratios between 2nd and 3rd, which is sometimes noticeable, mainly when towing 3.5 tons up hill with the 2.2. Second/third gear planetary is a weak point when used with tuned engines and racing. Apparently anything over 550hp will eventually cause the unit to seize, but that is hardly an issue with it fitted to pickups.
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
What a lot of people don't realise is that the DSG is a manual box robotised to change automatically. It has clutches to start off from a standstill [as well as change ratios] and can be severely damaged if used to creep. A torque convertor can creep along, slipping periodically, for months on end with no wear.
Timbo
Member
- Location
- Gods County
Agreed- there are better autos for towing, although solo it's pretty good. Why on earth Ford made such a hash of the software I have no idea- the TC could be locked up a lot more often than it is, especially in the lower gears which would help it no end. The 2.2 isn't short of torque off idle and low rpms so why let it rev so hard (at times) when there is no need.
ollie989898
Member
The gearbox on our Volvo will provide engine braking downhill if you let it.
As the duck said it seems naturally to sort itself to run the engine at 1500rpm in steady speed driving.
As the duck said it seems naturally to sort itself to run the engine at 1500rpm in steady speed driving.
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
It holds on to high revs needlessly at times, but at other times it hangs on tenaciously to high gears, and it doesn't have a 'kick down' feature programmed in to force it to downchange. I just let it get on with it and use Sport mode when towing. Just because it sometimes doesn't drive as I would drive myself, its not something that concerns me. It's automatic.
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
The eight speed AW transmission tuning in the Volvo is great at engine braking. Great altogether really, whether in Dynamic [Sprort] mode or not and whether Polestar tuned or not. Must say that the ZF nine speed in my Honda is excellent in that regard also.
I had a BMW X5 once, which may well have had a GM five speed auto, and that used to downchange from fifth to third if the brakes were slightly touched at 40mph facing downhill. Its revs would rise to 3000 or so when it did this and it frightened many a pedestrian as it did so in local villages. Oddly, the Range Rover I had after it behaved impeccably and it had the same engine and gearbox. So much is down to the car manufacturer's tuning/mapping of outboxes that are mechanically identical but fitted in different brands and models of vehicles.
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
My local mechanic swears that he gets far more DPF blockages in cars that aren't driven hard but are fitted with auto transmissions, because the auto keeps the load on the engine moderate and the revs never more than 2000 and usually around 1500. They just don't get up to temperature.
By the way, there is such a thing as 'too many gears'. I've yet to engage ninth gear on my Honda and I've had it eight months and its done about 10,000 miles. Its not seen a motorway of long dual carriageway though.
TripleSix
Member
- Location
- Helmsley, North Yorkshire
Revving an engine doesn't do it any harm.
Making it slog and bog is more stressful on it.
Moving the stick sideways to "S" is sport mode.
Ok so find me a hybrid with a manual gearbox?
There aren’t any are there!
The future is 2 pedals on the floor and gears that change without any input from the driver. The Americans wised up to this in the 50s. It was only the cost of fuel that kept us brits in cars with 3 pedals and a manual change gearbox.
Cars of the furute will NOT have manual gearboxes. I give it 10 years tops before it will be virtually impossible to buy a new manual car!
TripleSix
Member
- Location
- Helmsley, North Yorkshire
I don't think any of LRs large vehicles is available in manual now?
No they aren’t. From there point of view why bother developing both a manual and auto box. Hasn’t been a full fat Range Rover for about 16 years with manual box now and not sure it’s been an option on discos for the last 10 years.
It doesn’t need lots of revs it needs lots of revs to travel up hill and change into second so it doesn’t need lots of revs...
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
I can find you a few places it cant
- Tags
- mapping
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