Anyone bothering with sclerotinia sprays?

Bobthebuilder · Apr 19, 2019

An Gof said:
Dream customer for a service agronomist

Seriously if your agronomist advises insecticide in flowering rape for Pollen Beetle then change them

like i say i'm not an agronomist, just the sprayer operator, just saw a lot of beetles while in the crop yesterday for a different reason, the crop will be walked next week and if i get a job sheet and a pile of chemicals i'll put them on, so will wain and see

Northern territory · Apr 19, 2019

Doesn’t this serviced agronomy drum beating get a bit boring. Like everything there will good ones and bad ones of serviced and independent. It is time farmers took more responsibility upon themselves to question their actions. I know some service guys (small company) who give some great advice

Brisel · Apr 19, 2019

Northern territory said:
Doesn’t this serviced agronomy drum beating get a bit boring. Like everything there will good ones and bad ones of serviced and independent. It is time farmers took more responsibility upon themselves to question their actions. I know some service guys (small company) who give some great advice

Not when it costs farmer millions more than necessary, no. There's a degree of lack of sympathy when they et it happen without questioning. In TFF if they are already asking, they are part of the way towards at least understanding how agronomy & service works.

I agree - there some extremely good service agronomists out there who work hard for their farmers and deserve recognition for that. Most of today's independents were trained by distributors or have worked there during their careers.

Breakthru · Apr 19, 2019

Worked both sides of the fence and farmed.
Interesting that when yields are good you are good farmers but when something goes wrong or yields are poor the agronomist is bad.

B'o'B · Apr 19, 2019

Breakthru said:
Worked both sides of the fence and farmed.
Interesting that when yields are good you are good farmers but when something goes wrong or yields are poor the agronomist is bad.

That’s just human nature isn’t it?

An Gof · Apr 19, 2019

Northern territory said:
Doesn’t this serviced agronomy drum beating get a bit boring. Like everything there will good ones and bad ones of serviced and independent. It is time farmers took more responsibility upon themselves to question their actions. I know some service guys (small company) who give some great advice

Yes there are good and bad. But the difference to the bottom line can be huge. In our benchmarking group the difference is very clear. Surprisingly those with the same agronomist have almost identical costs

Those with service agreements pretty much all have significantly higher cost than those without.
One member of our group gave up the benchmarking because he could see where he could reduce his cost but he didn’t have the will to either change the agronomist or the terms he operated under.
At the end of the day it’s your money and your business to do what you want with but as the job gets tougher you might feel the need to look again for efficiencies.
And don’t get me started on those agronomists (you can tell just by company they work for) who put more adjuvants and snake oil in every mix than is necessary. It’s your money they are spending (wasting)

B'o'B · Apr 19, 2019

An Gof said:
And don’t get me started on those agronomists (you can tell just by company they work for) who put more adjuvants and snake oil in every mix than is necessary. It’s your money they are harvesting (wasting)

Just corrected that for you.

An Gof · Apr 19, 2019

Well I have just looked up my Farmbench figures for last year and my crop protection cost per tonne of OSR produced was £37
The others in my group were all more than double that

How does that look compared with yours @Brisel ?
That’s why I believe it’s important for growers to engage with their agronomists and challenge some of the recs. That can be difficult if it’s not your area of specialism. Buts it’s where NIAB Tag membership can have a really big benefit in giving you information to discuss recommendations with your agronomist.
I’m lucky I am BASIS qualified and have worked as an agronomist in the past so I have some adavtanages.

Chalky · Apr 19, 2019

It is easy to save expenditure-do not spend. But how do you know that you have ended up with the highest margin? There is always the chance some decisions are very much 'penny wise, pound foolish'

Northern territory · Apr 19, 2019

I think my point was not all serviced agronomy can be tarred with the same brush, but agree plenty out there being ripped off.

norfolk'n'good · Apr 19, 2019

Will go next week with some proline. Anyone spray for seed weevil whilst spraying for sclerotinia? Have a rec to put mavrik in also.

An Gof · Apr 19, 2019

Chalky said:
It is easy to save expenditure-do not spend. But how do you know that you have ended up with the highest margin? There is always the chance some decisions are very much 'penny wise, pound foolish'

Indeed it is. But the beauty of benchmarking is you see all parts of the system. In my case it clearly demonstrates that it is possible to have the lowest chemical expenditure and the highest production income

It’s all about appropriate use of inputs

An Gof · Apr 19, 2019

norfolk'n'good said:
Will go next week with some proline. Anyone spray for seed weevil whilst spraying for sclerotinia? Have a rec to put mavrik in also.

Have you seen any seed weevil?
When I sprayed my OSR I put a sheet under the tractor to limit damage to the crop. I always look carefully at it where it comes up over the front weight to see what insects I have caught and so what has been present in the crop. When I sprayed my rape last week I could not find one seed weevil on the sheet.
Yesterday we had a farm visit here and the group were looking at the OSR amongst other things. Several agronomists present and none could find any seed weevils. Of course I may just be lucky and that seed weevils don’t like cornwall

Zippy768 · Apr 19, 2019

An Gof said:
Yes there are good and bad. But the difference to the bottom line can be huge. In our benchmarking group the difference is very clear. Surprisingly those with the same agronomist have almost identical costs
Those with service agreements pretty much all have significantly higher cost than those without.
One member of our group gave up the benchmarking because he could see where he could reduce his cost but he didn’t have the will to either change the agronomist or the terms he operated under.
At the end of the day it’s your money and your business to do what you want with but as the job gets tougher you might feel the need to look again for efficiencies.
And don’t get me started on those agronomists (you can tell just by company they work for) who put more adjuvants and snake oil in every mix than is necessary. It’s your money they are spending (wasting)

Did these costs include the cost of walking the crop and the price of advice?
Did they include the cost of being a member of independent trialist like NIAB, or the cost of keeping qualifications and knowledge up to date.
I bet they didn't include the Opportunity Cost of undertaking other work instead of farmers walking their own crops, deciding applications, checking compatibility and chasing prices and suppliers.

We are a happy serviced agronomy customer. All applications are explained and nothing arrives that isn't expected.
Chem prices are of course higher. I simply don't have time to do it any other way and probably wouldn't be cost effective either.

It's great really. If i wanna play agronomist, I can have a walk with him and walk myself. If I haven't got time I know I have somebody that'll deal with it .

TFF is also good to make sure he is on the straight and narrow

Brisel · Apr 19, 2019

My annual NIAB TAG sub is circa £1300. My seeds, fertilser and spray bill is over £400k. I’m happy that the benefit exceeds the cost many times over even allowing for the cost of keeping my BASIS and FACTS membership paid and going to events for the CPD requirements up.

I don’t have my Farmbench figures to hand @An Gof but I remember doing some quick sums for a serviced participant and worked out I’m still over £50k better off compared to that farmer at the time. Some of that benefit was from a buying group (£32k net of levies and membership fees).

Clive · Apr 19, 2019

Chalky said:
It is easy to save expenditure-do not spend. But how do you know that you have ended up with the highest margin? There is always the chance some decisions are very much 'penny wise, pound foolish'

You run your own trials

After 4 years of doing so on OSR I’ve seen enough now to not bother with this spray again or even bother running a treated trial any more

Clive · Apr 19, 2019

Zippy768 said:
Did these costs include the cost of walking the crop and the price of advice?
Did they include the cost of being a member of independent trialist like NIAB, or the cost of keeping qualifications and knowledge up to date.
I bet they didn't include the Opportunity Cost of undertaking other work instead of farmers walking their own crops, deciding applications, checking compatibility and chasing prices and suppliers.

We are a happy serviced agronomy customer. All applications are explained and nothing arrives that isn't expected.
Chem prices are of course higher. I simply don't have time to do it any other way and probably wouldn't be cost effective either.

It's great really. If i wanna play agronomist, I can have a walk with him and walk myself. If I haven't got time I know I have somebody that'll deal with it .

TFF is also good to make sure he is on the straight and narrow

Your comparing serviced to diy

A better comparison (as your points re time etc are good). Is serviced vs independent

An independent can offer the same service levels as a serviced company can just without agenda / bias or sales targets

Clive · Apr 19, 2019

norfolk'n'good said:
Will go next week with some proline. Anyone spray for seed weevil whilst spraying for sclerotinia? Have a rec to put mavrik in also.

Please don’t use insecticide without REALLY good reason

All it does is create resistance and get stuff banned

OSR will be full of beneficial insect life right now and you will kill most of it

Two Tone · Apr 19, 2019

Unless the weather changes considerably and stays damp for several weeks, there is no way I am spraying our Rape with anything. Even though 3/4 of it is full of promise.

I had a Machinery lecturer at college who coined the phrase “Recreational Cultivation” and there is another one I’m coining as “Recreational Spraying!”

Northern territory · Apr 19, 2019

Two Tone said:
Unless the weather changes considerably and stays damp for several weeks, there is no way I am spraying our Rape with anything. Even though 3/4 of it is full of promise.

I had a Machinery lecturer at college who coined the phrase “Recreational Cultivation” and there is another one I’m coining as “Recreational Spraying!”

Would you have the same analogy for wheat and barley

Anyone bothering with sclerotinia sprays?

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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