Best grassland improvement implement

cousinjack · Jan 30, 2020

Hi all..

We run a mixed arable and beef farm, with both permanent 'old school' pasture meadows and 3 to 5 year lays in the arable rotation.
Currently we don't do much in the way of grassland maintenance, maybe some occasional rolling but nothing intensive..

I would like to improve the grassland a bit, and have been considering harrowing, slitting etc

What, if any, would be the best machine to start with to give the most noticeable improvement?
All fert indices and kept up, ph is monitored and lime applied where necessary. Not much FYM applied as it tends to head towards the arable rotation!

Chain harrows,
Tine harrows,
Slitters / spikes,
Rolls
Anything else ??

Are any worth bothering with in the long run ?

neilo · Jan 30, 2020

Electric fence wire & subdivide.

HarryB97 · Jan 30, 2020

As Neilo says paddock grazing would make a huge difference but in order to do that really successfully I would start by checking your indices and correcting if needed as grass wont grow if that's not right. Then get digging some holes and checking for compaction which will probably be present, grassland subsoiler is the best bet for this and then some over seeding to introduce some more clover and productive species. The key to grassland management doesn't lie with machinery but with the soil and grass.

sticky · Jan 30, 2020

Feed your soil/grass and it will feed your stock.

Bury the Trash · Jan 30, 2020

if youve got the money to spend how about a no till drill, (could be used on the arable at times as well.... and stitch in some cocksfoot that will do youre 'topsoilling'
or simply chuck somein with chicory in withe intial mix that will help for a year or 3 as well,

not over grazing for any length of time will make it last yonks, and undergrazing it will go to seed @Kiwi Pete

milkloss · Jan 30, 2020

Didn't think it'd be long before the rotational grazers would turn up

Bury the Trash · Jan 30, 2020

im a self confessed constant overgrazer

, i am trying though, honest....

neilo · Jan 30, 2020

Bury the Trash said:
if youve got the money to spend how about a no till drill, (could be used on the arable at times as well.... and stitch in some cocksfoot that will do youre 'topsoilling'
or simply chuck somein with chicory in withe intial mix that will help for a year or 3 as well,

not over grazing for any length of time will make it last yonks, and undergrazing it will go to seed @Kiwi Pete

I have a no till drill and lots of very old pp. I’ve about given up on the idea of overseeding/stitching in as a waste of time and money for anything but a one season boost. Where I did stitch festulolium into 15ac in Autumn 2018, it sparked a lot of thistle seed to germinate in the slots, in fields that I had managed to clean right up.

The same fields have seen a massive change as a result of rotational grazing, with the sward composition changing in favour of more productive species. I also have a swardlifter, but it hasn’t been anywhere near those fields. Better grazing management is the cheapest, and most effective, method of pasture improvement ime.

Hesstondriver · Jan 30, 2020

i know it sounds cheesy but have you established exactly what problem you are trying to fix. or indeed which problem is causing you the biggest yeild penalty? compaction/ thatch / drainage . as well as fertility , PH and grass species ?

im as guilty of buying shiny kit, but i have also learnt to try and identify individual problems and fix them one at a time.

Bury the Trash · Jan 30, 2020

neilo said:
I have a no till drill and lots of very old pp. I’ve about given up on the idea of overseeding/stitching in as a waste of time and money for anything but a one season boost. Where I did stitch festulolium into 15ac in Autumn 2018, it sparked a lot of thistle seed to germinate in the slots, in fields that I had managed to clean right up.

The same fields have seen a massive change as a result of rotational grazing, with the sward composition changing in favour of more productive species. I also have a swardlifter, but it hasn’t been anywhere near those fields. Better grazing management is the cheapest, and most effective, method of pasture improvement ime.

ah,sounds like the same very similar experience as mine with....an Einbok and overseeding.

no better then.

neilo · Jan 30, 2020

Bury the Trash said:
ah,sounds like the same very similar experience as mine with....an Einbok and overseeding.

no better then.

I’ve decided it probably makes most money for contractors and seed salesmen.

beefandsleep · Jan 30, 2020

Bare it down to the boards every winter with store lambs, improve your pasture and get paid for it.

cousinjack · Jan 30, 2020

Hesstondriver said:
i know it sounds cheesy but have you established exactly what problem you are trying to fix. or indeed which problem is causing you the biggest yeild penalty? compaction/ thatch / drainage . as well as fertility , PH and grass species ?

im as guilty of buying shiny kit, but i have also learnt to try and identify individual problems and fix them one at a time.

I think you have hit the nail firmly on the head here !

1. No I don't know what I'm trying to achieve..
2. Yes, I like shiny kit and an totally guilty of going with the theory that burning diesel must be doing some good..
3. As far as I am aware, we don't overstock or trample any of it too much

These are all excellent responses and help give a bit of confidence to the idea to not do anything.. apart from what I already am ...

Oh and there is no way I'm electric fencing anything... - my stock pay no attention to it and I hate the damn stuff !!
As it happens, we have small fields anyway, so can rotate easily !

Thanks all..

cousinjack · Jan 30, 2020

Bury the Trash said:
if youve got the money to spend how about a no till drill, (could be used on the arable at times as well.... and stitch in some cocksfoot that will do youre 'topsoilling'
or simply chuck somein with chicory in withe intial mix that will help for a year or 3 as well,

not over grazing for any length of time will make it last yonks, and undergrazing it will go to seed @Kiwi Pete

We get paid to let it seed under stewardship..., Worked out it was way more economical than 3rd cut silage !!

Is that detrimental?

Bury the Trash · Jan 30, 2020

cousinjack said:
We get paid to let it seed under stewardship..., Worked out it was way more economical than 3rd cut silage !!

Is that detrimental?

well one wouldn't want to let Docks go to seed exactly, or gorse

but for other more desirable plants....well

juxtaposition we buy a lot of seed don't we,

for vegetative growth i suppose , but that's not natural is it iyswim. can there be other ways of growing stuff with out it being just for that green leaf...highly digestable goodness though it is..

i'm out of my depth on the subject really, as in learning that overgrazing and undergrazing was bad practice for longevity /survival of the good sward species.... but these days i'm inclined towards leaving more every now and then and not eating and cutting to within an inch of its life constantly.. but my excuse is

i've got sheep so its little bit harder than with cattle,

but anyway best to ask Pete the Kiwi for his take...

cousinjack · Jan 30, 2020

Ok, so just pretend you're talking to an idiot ....

Rotational grazing.. ??

Move every, hour ? Day? Week?

Best in big mob grazing groups or smaller lots ?

Sounds like a lot of work ?

Can you tell I'm more into the arable side of things

neilo · Jan 30, 2020

cousinjack said:
Ok, so just pretend you're talking to an idiot ....

Rotational grazing.. ??

Move every, hour ? Day? Week?

Best in big mob grazing groups or smaller lots ?

Sounds like a lot of work ?

Can you tell I'm more into the arable side of things

Basically bigger mobs and more frequent moves. The more often the better, but it’s always a compromise on how much time it takes.

The block I rotate best is 60ac in 16 fields, and now defences as such. Moving 200 ewes with twin lambs takes about 5 minutes after the first couple of times, and usually every 3-4 days, depending on grass growth.

You might think it’s a lot of work, but it’s a hell of a lot less work & expense than doing anything with machinery.

That said, your options for improvement are very limited if stewardship schemes mean you have to let the cr*p species go to seed imo. Mob grazers of native cattle may disagree of course, but that’s a different thing.

HarryB97 · Jan 30, 2020

cousinjack said:
Ok, so just pretend you're talking to an idiot ....

Rotational grazing.. ??

Move every, hour ? Day? Week?

Best in big mob grazing groups or smaller lots ?

Sounds like a lot of work ?

Can you tell I'm more into the arable side of things

With cattle I would move them every 1-3 days depending on time available. If you have small fields then it's just closing and opening gates but it's very easy to use electric with geared reals of Gallagher tumble wheels which are brilliant. Mob size doesn't matter as long as the paddock size is the right size for the amount of stock for the desired length of time.

cousinjack · Jan 30, 2020

HarryB97 said:
With cattle I would move them every 1-3 days depending on time available. If you have small fields then it's just closing and opening gates but it's very easy to use electric with geared reals of Gallagher tumble wheels which are brilliant. Mob size doesn't matter as long as the paddock size is the right size for the amount of stock for the desired length of time.

Oh I just detest electric fencing...

And our cattle pay no attention to it whatsoever... battery or mains, give them a few hours, even in a field with ridiculous amounts of grass, and they've helpfully wrapped it in the trees !!

Highland Mule · Jan 30, 2020

FYI, from another thread, a quote from Pete the Kiwi.

(https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index...e-in-suckler-cows.252296/page-58#post-6746694)

“Currently we have 595 sheep and 28 bulls on about an acre”

“All single strand fences BTW, stock that aren't ever hungry only stray by accident and want to stay as a herd - because they are herd animals!
I turn on the electricity for my cow/calf mob (calves chew everything) and sometimes energise the strand keeping the main mob, not often but enough to give them the idea”

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