Best grassland improvement implement

[cousinjack]

So what about rolling in the spring ??

Waste of diesel??
It does help the mower a bit though!

One of our landlords is very 'old fashioned ' and almost insists we chain and roll their bit every year!

Not a fan of the rolls myself !

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Oh yes, the RAPPA winder that sits on my quad for most of the winter is near the top of my ‘best things I ever bought’ list.?

We are going to head towards a semi-permanent single-wire techno system with hundred of tiny paddocks,,, but if I wasn't going that way, I would have one of those by now!

 

[cousinjack]

Probably the biggest thing is, when you graze the grass right down is really important.
Most pasture experts suggest this right time is: right through the growing season
My discovery: following this advice buggers your grass and limits production immensely

We graze higher and higher through the growing season and then lower and lower until it's gone - in the late winter there are no thistledowns and suchlike for your stock to "plant"
There are about 1200kg of clover seeds alone in nearly every acre of soil, so if you aren't seeing clover then it is probably management
If you are seeing weeds then.... it is probably also management

What weeds are you seeing, these are your indicator species?
eg spreading thistles indicate compaction/low oxygen in the soil, low calcium function, good potash and phosphate levels

You can of course spray them, in which case you will not benefit from what they are trying to do, and again they will have tons of seed in the soil whether you top them or not.
Soil disturbance/bare soil is all it takes for more to pop up, hence new leys are generally either money-pits, weed nurseries, or both

Dock and thistle are the main weeds..

Few plantain and dandelion on some of the older pastures.. although I hear these are coming back into being trendy ??

 

[Kiwi Pete]

So what about rolling in the spring ??

Waste of diesel??
It does help the mower a bit though!

One of our landlords is very 'old fashioned ' and almost insists we chain and roll their bit every year!

Not a fan of the rolls myself !

Unsure, I don't roll or drag because
1. No need to compact the soil more than it is
2. I don't want to kill all the beneficials that live in what's left of last year's residue, these are the things that manage my farmland, doing stuff like predating parasite larvae and eggs, correcting balances, decomposing dead plant matter etc
3. I don't really mow, either, we are moving away from silaging due to the cost and inefficiency of the process

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Dock and thistle are the main weeds..

Few plantain and dandelion on some of the older pastures.. although I hear these are coming back into being trendy ??

Dock and thistle suggests you mow and fertilise it quite regularly?
Can you skip silaging it for a year or is that impractical for your system?

Dandelion and plantain are both very nutritious and not very productive as such, the newer plantain cultivars are pretty growthy though.

From the picture you've given me (most of these things are taprooted or deeper rooting species) then it does sound like your grass is being bonsai'd a little.
Is there a slight compaction layer under the turf, say, between 4 and 8 inches?

 

[Al R]

If you wear wellies, you might not be earthed so there would be no circuit and you'd get no shock!

Been there, done that.

“If” I wear wellies every day of the year

 

[HarryB97]

Oh I just detest electric fencing...

And our cattle pay no attention to it whatsoever... battery or mains, give them a few hours, even in a field with ridiculous amounts of grass, and they've helpfully wrapped it in the trees !!

Have you ever specifically trained them to ht electric wire?

So what about rolling in the spring ??

Waste of diesel??
It does help the mower a bit though!

One of our landlords is very 'old fashioned ' and almost insists we chain and roll their bit every year!

Not a fan of the rolls myself !

Unless it's very poached or its a new ley which wasnt rolled the eprevious autmn or has experienced frost lift and brought stones up I wouldn't roll it. We never role our temporary grass leys in the spring excpet for this coming spring when I have 70 acres to roll as it was to wet last autum and it's unmowable at the minute!

 

[cousinjack]

3. I don't really mow, either, we are moving away from silaging due to the cost and inefficiency of the process

I've seen your comments in other threads regarding outwintering and no silage making... all good stuff ! Especially the working towards plastic free ... it can only be a good thing !

Outwintering is never going to be possible for us,
Mainly due to the excessive rainfall even on normal years which turns out granite soils to mush. But they dry quickly so turn out can be quick.

It could be argued that we shouldn't bother with the cattle but we generally only run the grass on the more inaccessible steep/nasty fields unsuited to arable cropping. This makes the best use of all available land and we get the dung to put back on.

Plus the southwest grows grass like no tomorrow

 

[cousinjack]

Have you ever specifically trained them to ht electric wire?

I think my father has inadvertently trained them to Smash it up !

I can see your point and yes, would need to be done if I was bothered about electric fencing.. mostly we can manage without it ..

 

[cousinjack]

Dock and thistle suggests you mow and fertilise it quite regularly?
Can you skip silaging it for a year or is that impractical for your system?

Dandelion and plantain are both very nutritious and not very productive as such, the newer plantain cultivars are pretty growthy though.

From the picture you've given me (most of these things are taprooted or deeper rooting species) then it does sound like your grass is being bonsai'd a little.
Is there a slight compaction layer under the turf, say, between 4 and 8 inches?

I think I could spend hours picking your brain ...

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I think I could spend hours picking your brain ...

Go for it - without trying to be a smartarse, most of what we are doing is really just a new twist on the old "dog and stick" and I am here to help anyone who genuinely wants to hear it

When you think of a cowboy/ranch/herd situation they may have 3000 cattle and no tractor, maybe not even a yard.... but they may move their herd 25 times in a day, now look at a "paddock grazer" who parks their cattle in a place for 3 days at a time and expects miracles in the wet

Which cattle have time to make the most mess?
Which herd have time do the most overgrazing?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I think my father has inadvertently trained them to Smash it up !

I can see your point and yes, would need to be done if I was bothered about electric fencing.. mostly we can manage without it ..

Make little tinfoil flags and wrap them on your wire, they will go in for a sniff and get a hell of a jolt

 

[unlacedgecko]

Oh yes, the RAPPA winder that sits on my quad for most of the winter is near the top of my ‘best things I ever bought’ list.?

A front mount for unwinding makes putting out fences a real joy as well.

it’s the axle of an old Rappa barrow welded to a 4ft tube.

There are 2 eye bolts attached to the Rappa front rack. The tube goes through these and has a pin at the offside to secure it. The near side has a piece of flat bar welded to it to prevent the tube rolling.

 

[ploughman1963]

This and grazing management

 

[deerandgrassland.com]

Rolling only helps for silage making really but not ideal for soil. Chain harrow spring tines etc is very good for grass and topsoil as that removes died material, opens up the surface for sunshine which helps for early tillering. Spring tillering is very important because that will be grazed during summer.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Grazing Management is everything, said in tbe old days and as true today. "Farming with Iron is a waste of time and money". It wont un do bad grazing management

 

[neilo]

A front mount for unwinding makes putting out fences a real joy as well.
View attachment 855920

it’s the axle of an old Rappa barrow welded to a 4ft tube.
View attachment 855919

There are 2 eye bolts attached to the Rappa front rack. The tube goes through these and has a pin at the offside to secure it. The near side has a piece of flat bar welded to it to prevent the tube rolling.

View attachment 855921

Very smart, no balestring in sight.?

Mr OCD here would still like to have all the stakes placed at exactly 15 paces apart though.?

I reel the wire out on the back, then walk back down the line putting stakes in, before walking back to the bike clipping on the stakes.

 

[som farmer]

elec fence training, very easy, just run a line meter out from a hedge/fence, our big boy mains, chucks out 11joules, everything is scared sh##less of it. I used to be a fanatic for rolling, but now, can see the point of not, why firm the soil, when it needs to breathe. That might change if moles come back. There is no doubt that grazing management controls the value of your grass, I have seen old p/p 'turned' around, and made highly productive, by grazing, and have done some myself. Rotational grazing is great, but for the best results, measure it, see what you actually have got there, and calculate , and utilise profitably. Interestingly, on the thread 'is there a future for suckle cows' plently of people knocking rotational grazing, and elec fence, here, 20 + advocating it.
Reseeding, shiny kit, last year, we bought a 2nd hand vaderstat 3m rapid, definitely not shiny, but it has changed our reseeding policy, can be used as a direct drill, 1/2 rate seed on thin pasture, magic.

 

[Henarar]

elec fence training, very easy, just run a line meter out from a hedge/fence, our big boy mains, chucks out 11joules, everything is scared sh##less of it. I used to be a fanatic for rolling, but now, can see the point of not, why firm the soil, when it needs to breathe. That might change if moles come back. There is no doubt that grazing management controls the value of your grass, I have seen old p/p 'turned' around, and made highly productive, by grazing, and have done some myself. Rotational grazing is great, but for the best results, measure it, see what you actually have got there, and calculate , and utilise profitably. Interestingly, on the thread 'is there a future for suckle cows' plently of people knocking rotational grazing, and elec fence, here, 20 + advocating it.
Reseeding, shiny kit, last year, we bought a 2nd hand vaderstat 3m rapid, definitely not shiny, but it has changed our reseeding policy, can be used as a direct drill, 1/2 rate seed on thin pasture, magic.

why is your pasture thin ?

 

[Dry Rot]

"Never let the grass grow over 4 inches" (for sheep) is advice I had from a college professor. If it grows over that, either out with the mower to top it or shut it up for hay. Letting it go to seed exhausts it and if it can't seed it will tiller which makes more leaf.

But I do a lot of chain harrow to spread muck, but that's because I have horses now. It helps control worms. I am actually wondering about rolling in winter as it is difficult to flatten sand unless its damp. There are virtualy no stones here but moles love it, given a chance.