Recreational Cultivating?

Brisel · Apr 25, 2020

Will7 said:
TheView attachment 873462 View attachment 873463The left hand side of this field was subsoiler, the right was not

What was the previous crop? What stae would you say the land drains are in? That's a fair endorsement of subsoiling though there still looks like some standing water on it at the far end so I guess that blurry photo was taken last winter.

Is that the Cardyke in the distance?

teslacoils · Apr 25, 2020

Yes.

In a "normal" year the soil is not suitably dry at the ideal depth for a subsoiler with legs at 60cm on clay in this area. It's mostly done to provide a channel for excessive rain to get away from the surface. We see very little difference between subsoiled land and moled land for the latter.

Surface ponding is a large problem round here due to the lack of gradient of the land. Most folk own a subsoiler. Few own a mole, and even fewer want to pay for a contractor to do it.v

Will 1594 · Apr 25, 2020

rob h said:
Next door bought a new jd direct drill this year .it wouldn’t dig in and where it dir the slot wasn’t closed propperly.so they sub soiled disked then drilled.

Bloke in next village bought 750 , still ploughs ,or sl s it then drills it with it , ?

Clive · Apr 25, 2020

rob h said:
Next door bought a new jd direct drill this year .it wouldn’t dig in and where it dir the slot wasn’t closed propperly.so they sub soiled disked then drilled.

don’t blame the drill or the soil type

fermec860 · Apr 25, 2020

DrWazzock said:
I have just paraplowed hard overwintered stubbles ready to drill some kale. Frankly it looks a bigger mess now than before I started so will have to roll it before drilling, and will have lost more moisture but it was so hard I couldn’t think direct drilling would have worked .... but it might have done so I have left a bit undisturbed as an expwriment.
I also have ploughed harrowed and rolled land to drill the kale into which has lost most of its moisture but might be some rain coming so drilling it today. The drill will do a much neater job on the intensively cultivated land but not sure the end result will be any better than direct drilling. We shall see though.
I have got my spring crops reasonably well established by various means but I feel at a crossroads and in a muddle about the best approach long term.
Conventional cultivation’s always seems a neater job with a more even stand of plants with less roundup used. But it does come at a price in terms of time, diesel and moisture loss.
Direct drilling can possibly work but needs much more careful management , has much smaller drilling windows of opportunity, can’t cope with chopped straw despite what anybody says, and can lead to drowned plants much more readily than the plough system.
I am going to produce some decision making flowcharts when I get time in advance of summer. Lie in a darkened room and think it through carefully so it isn’t another cluster deck next autumn and spring.

this spring I think that less is better we’ve had a weaving direct drill on demo that has worked well but if you go down the cultivation route this spring the better seed bed you made and drilled it well then thats came well big savings in time and diesel thou

Clive · Apr 25, 2020

Will7 said:
TheView attachment 873462 View attachment 873463The left hand side of this field was subsoiler, the right was not

there are other (better) ways to fix that kind of thing than with fuel and metal. Most don’t know how though or even accept it’s possible - that’s the problem

rob h · Apr 25, 2020

I’m open minded to different drilling methods .but looking over the hedge at locals with more land and money who have over the years tried just about every new drill that’s supposed to be so mutch better than the last .non have stuck with direct drilling with no other cultivation’s. I’ve done a small trial with a vaddy next to our miniflow in spring barley and so far the miniflow drilled looks better.

rob h · Apr 25, 2020

Clive said:
don’t blame the drill or the soil type

So what was the solution then

robs1 · Apr 25, 2020

rob h said:
I’m open minded to different drilling methods .but looking over the hedge at locals with more land and money who have over the years tried ju⁷st about every new drill that’s supposed to be so mutch better than the last .non have stuck with direct drilling with no other cultivation’s. I’ve done a small trial with a vaddy next to our miniflow in spring barley and so far the miniflow drilled looks better.

On soils that have low OM levels and have been beaten into submission many times it takes time for DD to work, it requires patience and sometimes there is a yield penalty after a couple of years, we have been doing it since 2012 and would never go back. BUT we have some large bare patches this year in some fields, however they were drilled in late nov, doubt they would have been drilled at all if we ploughed still.
Everyone has a choice if anyone doesn't want to DD they dont have to, doesn't make them stupid or bad farmers despite what some might say.

ajd132 · Apr 25, 2020

Zero till systems fail because of poor management. The actually systems and machinery are not the problem. But of course farmers are notoriously bad for blaming all their problems on other things and never themselves.
really annoys me when you see people slagging certain drills and systems when you know full well their knowledge extends to picking up a can of chemical someone has told them to put on.

marcot · Apr 25, 2020

Clive said:
actually pretty much ALL cultivation is recreational

many are able to mentally convince themselves otherwise however

Yawn [emoji42] it didnt take long

rob h · Apr 25, 2020

robs1 said:
On soils that have low OM levels and have been beaten into submission many times it takes time for DD to work, it requires patience and sometimes there is a yield penalty after a couple of years, we have been doing it since 2012 and would never go back. BUT we have some large bare patches this year in some fields, however they were drilled in late nov, doubt they would have been drilled at all if we ploughed still.
Everyone has a choice if anyone doesn't want to DD they dont have to, doesn't make them stupid or bad farmers despite what some might say.

theirs a lot of different soil types and some can be direct drilled successfully .I just haven't seen anything that works well on our soil types yet.but who knows in the future

Bury the Trash · Apr 25, 2020

Did an extra pass to kill the weed as not used glypho use yet this year which is good because it causes cancer , allegedly.
...well. more actually to do with the sprayer needing parts not coming

Serendipity I guess

Whilst Talking recreational fossil fuel use, what about all those millions lawns and village greens mowed burning fuel and destroying butterfly habitat just fir it to look nice

rob h · Apr 25, 2020

ajd132 said:
Zero till systems fail because of poor management. The actually systems and machinery are not the problem. But of course farmers are notoriously bad for blaming all their problems on other things and never themselves.
really annoys me when you see people slagging certain drills and systems when you know full well their knowledge extends to picking up a can of chemical someone has told them to put on.

How's it poor management if the drill can't the seed at a decent depth and cover it.poor management would be blindly carrying on with seed left on the surface.dont care what systems you use seed has to be buried and covered

Will7 · Apr 25, 2020

Brisel said:
What was the previous crop? What stae would you say the land drains are in? That's a fair endorsement of subsoiling though there still looks like some standing water on it at the far end so I guess that blurry photo was taken last winter.

Is that the Cardyke in the distance?

Good local knowledge!!

Osr and this field had not been subsoiled for 6yrs. The is the next on the list for drainage but all the existing ones so work. The photo was taken in mid Feb after our last big rain and the large puddles had gone in 36hrs. Bear in mind all the outfalls were 1m under water at this point due to water coming from higher ground.

Will7 · Apr 25, 2020

Clive said:
there are other (better) ways to fix that kind of thing than with fuel and metal. Most don’t know how though or even accept it’s possible - that’s the problem

I did try that, and all I got was falling yields and an explosion in slugs.

Clive · Apr 25, 2020

Will7 said:
I did try that, and all I got was falling yields and an explosion in slugs.

not everyone can make notill / conservation ag work - but that’s a people thing not a machinery or soil thing

if it’s any consolation i’m pretty sh!t at ploughing and can’t make farming stack up without serious subs financially while using much cultivation

ajd132 · Apr 25, 2020

rob h said:
How's it poor management if the drill can't the seed at a decent depth and cover it.poor management would be blindly carrying on with seed left on the surface.dont care what systems you use seed has to be buried and covered

You are right. But there’s so much more to it than just ‘not cultivating’. I think for many who fail at it they just see it as a money saving excercise not a totally different farming system. These are the ones the fail in my experience.

PSQ · Apr 25, 2020

Clive said:
actually pretty much ALL cultivation is recreational

many are able to mentally convince themselves otherwise however

It's so easy to look over the march fence and carp on about your neighbours wet land and failed crop or their "recreational tillage", when on your side of the hedge it just looks soooo perfect.

What we don't hear is the neighbours comments when they look back towards your farm and see the failed DD crops. You know the ones that in retrospect you didn't expect to grow but of course it was always intended to be an 'experiment' anyway ?
- Or as your neighbours might say: "Clive's made a proper 'pansy' of it, again!" ?

Clive · Apr 25, 2020

PSQ said:
It's so easy to look over the march fence and carp on about your neighbours wet land and failed crop or their "recreational tillage", when six feet your side of the hedge it just looks soooo perfect. It's also completely undignified to farm your neighbours farm with snippy comments on a public forum, but 'ho hum'.

What we don't hear is the neighbours comments when they look back towards your farm and see the failed DD crops. You know the ones that in retrospect you didn't think would grow but of course it was always intended to be an 'experiment' anyway ?
Or as your neighbours would probably say: "Clive's made a proper pansy of it, again!" ?

nothing perfect about my farm sadly and many of my neighbours grow fantastic looking. crops and are very good farmers. Far better than me in many cases and i suspect many (if not most of them) are members or read TFF

can’t recall posting otherwise frankly !

for me farming is about making a profit without reliance on subs and in a way that is sustainable environmentally , not who can grow the best yield or whose farm looks the prettiest........... I don’t like working for chemical companies or banks

Farming is not a competition, it’s a business

Recreational Cultivating?

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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