Tack prices

gadusmorhua · Jun 9, 2020

I have 15 acres of clean pasture over 4 well fenced and watered fields.In previous years we have had a few sheep on tack over winter, but take a cut of haylage in the summer. This year we are not doing bales, so wanted more sheep here. Since we moved here four years ago we have charged 50p a head, but felt it was time to increase it slightly, to 55p. I feel that is cheap, as I check the troughs, the stock etc, and the farmer even has a barn to shear in, if need be. We get on really well with him, his sheep are clean, and well looked after- it would be a shame to lose him.
However, this April he wanted to bring his ewes with lambs, and insisted they go for the same price as an empty ewe, and told us he couldn't afford to pay more than 50p a head. It is obvious to me the ewe is eating more to make milk, and the lambs are eating to grow, and they are fattening up at my expense! I don't want to fall out with the guy, but can't help feeling this is wrong.

neilo · Jun 9, 2020

Where in the country are you? Tack price has nothing to do with what you think it might be worth, and everything to do with local demand.
If there aren’t many sheep farmers competing for it locally, and you have one that is tidy, AND pays you on time, then 50p might be doing very well indeed.

As for increasing the price because you think it’s time it went up, are you a land agent by any chance? That sheep farmers costs are steadily increasing whilst his output price is not. Demand will change the tack price, not time since you last agreed the price.

BELOWAVERAGE · Jun 9, 2020

neilo said:
Where in the country are you? Tack price has nothing to do with what you think it might be worth, and everything to do with local demand.
If there aren’t many sheep farmers competing for it locally, and you have one that is tidy, AND pays you on time, then 50p might be doing very well indeed.

As for increasing the price because you think it’s time it went up, are you a land agent by any chance? That sheep farmers costs are steadily increasing whilst his output price is not. Demand will change the tack price, not time since you last agreed the price.

You got to remember this chaps cost of living has probably gone up as well in the last 4 years, whilst his income from tack has not.

neilo · Jun 9, 2020

BELOWAVERAGE said:
You got to remember this chaps cost of living has probably gone up as well in the last 4 years, whilst his income from tack has not.

Maybe so, but if there aren’t many other tack graziers locally, his 50p rate might be very handy already, especially for summer grazing when the grass is growing for nothing? and stocking rate will be a lot higher than in the winter.
In some parts of the country it would want to be free, and a service for keeping it tidy.

edn · Jun 9, 2020

If it helps I don’t pay any extra for ewes with lambs at foot- once the lambs are weaned I’d start paying for grazing for them.

beardface · Jun 9, 2020

I pay 35p head on similar ground and check at weekends or whenever I feel I need to in the week. I wouldn't pay anymore than this as it is equal to around 80 quid an acre when field size, stocking level time on farm etc are taken into account. If you spank his arse for it youll struggle to get anyone else as word will get round.

andybk · Jun 9, 2020

I would say your doing very well at 50p , summer lets are normally on a per acre basis ,i presume your getting the BSP , ?£30 for land with no bsp (landlord claiming) , maybe £100 with the sub , lamb price is still where it was 30 years ago for your grazer . There simply isnt the return in sheep to pay a proper commercial rent . Is it a new ley or old permemenant pasture , why arnt you doing bales this year ?

Ukjay · Jun 9, 2020

gadusmorhua said:
I have 15 acres of clean pasture over 4 well fenced and watered fields.In previous years we have had a few sheep on tack over winter, but take a cut of haylage in the summer. This year we are not doing bales, so wanted more sheep here. Since we moved here four years ago we have charged 50p a head, but felt it was time to increase it slightly, to 55p. I feel that is cheap, as I check the troughs, the stock etc, and the farmer even has a barn to shear in, if need be. We get on really well with him, his sheep are clean, and well looked after- it would be a shame to lose him.
However, this April he wanted to bring his ewes with lambs, and insisted they go for the same price as an empty ewe, and told us he couldn't afford to pay more than 50p a head. It is obvious to me the ewe is eating more to make milk, and the lambs are eating to grow, and they are fattening up at my expense! I don't want to fall out with the guy, but can't help feeling this is wrong.

I suppose the more meaningful question should be: What would be the end result if you lost the incumbent grazer through raising the grazing charge to them. What costs will you incur following such change to maintain the land etc?
I doubt you would want to leave it to go wild if as you state you normally take a crop off it, because it would cost a lot to get it back into condition (unless you would want to bale any old crap) - so is it not better to keep the current status quo working well, as it helps both parties surely?

I personally do not charge for grazing our paddocks, as we actually benefit from the method we use/d as I have less to deal with in general maintenance etc, and the paddocks do actually benefit from the grazing arrangement in our view.
All we ask is the grazing ends in time to allow us to take a hay crop if needed, and the fences are repaired to the standard they are if the sheep damage any.
They have also been proving to be good at keeping our hedges under control

yellowbelly · Jun 9, 2020

BELOWAVERAGE said:
You got to remember this chaps cost of living has probably gone up as well in the last 4 years, whilst his income from tack has not.

Not being funny, but the OP has the option to buy some sheep and see how he gets on

Edit.... @Ukjay has the right idea - just seen his new post above.

yellowbelly · Jun 9, 2020

Come the revolution, Comrades (those of a sheep keeping persuasion, anyway) there will come a time when the bloke with the sheep is the one that's getting paid ?

Muddyroads · Jun 9, 2020

I’ve recently had a similar discussion with land owners who insist on cattle being grazed on a per head basis and expect beef cattle to pay the same as dairy heifers. My solution will simply be to remove some stock as there is no minimum number agreed. Not ideal, but the land owners are being greedy as they already claim BPS.

Ukjay · Jun 9, 2020

yellowbelly said:
Come the revolution, Comrades (those of a sheep keeping persuasion, anyway) there will come a time when the bloke with the sheep is the one that's getting paid ?

It can't be all bad - you are all still keeping them after many years

yellowbelly · Jun 9, 2020

Ukjay said:
It can't be all bad - you are all still keeping them after many years

It's mainly through force of habit though

lloyd · Jun 9, 2020

Why change policy?
If you had continued to make
hay this year it would be worth a lot
winter time as fodder is tight.
Best thing to do is buy some sheep
yourself and experience the pleasure of
keeping them

Ukjay · Jun 9, 2020

yellowbelly said:
It's mainly through force of habit though

You keep towing that line, I will believe you one day

Derrick Hughes · Jun 9, 2020

Does he say where he is ?I was getting 50 p 30 years ago . Rate here would vary from 75p to £1 West Wales

lloyd · Jun 9, 2020

Derrick Hughes said:
Does he say where he is ?I was getting 50 p 30 years ago . Rate here would vary from 75p to £1 West Wales

Wow make the most of it they will
be going south next year.

Derrick Hughes · Jun 9, 2020

lloyd said:
Wow make the most of it they will
be going south next year.

Been that for 10 years around here . That's what everyone charges . No one would give up their tack . Most are like the furniture, part of the property, big loyalty factor ,

lloyd · Jun 9, 2020

Derrick Hughes said:
Been that for 10 years around here . That's what everyone charges . No one would give up their tack . Most are like the furniture, part of the property, big loyalty factor ,

Sheep prices haven't been too bad last few years though.
Some time ago some sheep keep near me was making £200 an acre
then the sheep price crashed and all the under bidders vanished over night.

Derrick Hughes · Jun 9, 2020

lloyd said:
Sheep prices haven't been too bad last few years though.
Some time ago some sheep keep near me was making £200 an acre
then the sheep price crashed and all the under bidders vanished over night.

To be honest I dont charge that .I charge a set amount per acre . Chaps been coming here for 20 years or so ,does his own Shepherding , trust is everything in the tack job

Tack prices

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0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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