Farm safety

chaffcutter · Jun 25, 2020

To put this into context though, 6000 people die in their own homes every year, for all sorts of reasons.

Reading the farm death summary, I would say almost all of those accidents could have been avoided by standing back for a minute or two and just thinking, what could go wrong here, how do I do it safety?

The majority are caused by being in too much of a rush.

Cropper · Jun 25, 2020

ollie989898 said:
They aren't that expensive and if the NFU got it's act together they could have them bought in bulk cheaper still.

Just be something else for the night time visitors to nick from my farmyard

roscoe erf · Jun 25, 2020

Derrick Hughes said:
Guy unloading one of my straw wagons at a prison farm last week was serving 5 years for an unguarded PTO shaft

really got to be more to this than just that was he walking down the high street with it

kiwi pom · Jun 25, 2020

7610 super q said:
You still don't get it. I've been looking around for a decade for a cherry picker / scissor lift type vehicle. They are ridiculously expensive even S/H. I simply can't find £5-6k to buy one. Prices are relentlessly rising. Hiring in this part of the world isn't that clever.
It's a financial juggling act every year. Do I spend money on house repairs ? New windows for the holiday cottage ? Replace a worn out implement ? Fill a spare tank with C/H oil cos it's cheap ATM ?
Rightly, or wrongly the cherry picker is way down the list yet again.
To say money isn't an excuse is both flippant and ignorant.
The answer to your OP was nailed in post # 2. Like it or not, 21st century prices would cure 90% of health and safety and mental health issues in the farming community.

Think I'm right in saying you don't employ anyone? Do 'one man bands' actually get much hassle from the H&S guys or are they aiming more at those that employ staff.

I get what your saying about the money but it does make you wonder if you cant make it may how do farms that employ staff and spend the money on courses and hoop jumping manage? They don't get 21st century prices either.

Andrew · Jun 25, 2020

Goweresque said:
But it isn't just £1k on a man cage is it? The moment you make your telehandler into a man lifter you have to have it loler'd annually,

Telehandlers are lifting equipment and should be LOLERed annually anyway. If used with a cage then the LOLER should be 6 months. Of you only use the cage 6 months from when the LOLER is issued, the only expense is the LOLER of the cage.

We pay £100 for LOLER certificates on machines, however most of the time they’re free with a service.
We then pay £10 per time for attachments.
The cage is one we built ourself, there is guidance online. Cost about £100 to build, then LOLER before first use.

So £110 initial cost and £10 annually for a cage inspection. No extra insurance costs. Hardly going to break the bank.

7610 super q · Jun 25, 2020

kiwi pom said:
Think I'm right in saying you don't employ anyone? Do 'one man bands' actually get much hassle from the H&S guys or are they aiming more at those that employ staff.

I get what your saying about the money but it does make you wonder if you cant make it may how do farms that employ staff and spend the money on courses and hoop jumping manage? They don't get 21st century prices either.

Subsidies ? Left 1000 acres in Aunty Mabel's will ? Borrowed money ? Why do some flog haylage for £15/ bale when it costs £20 / bale to make it ?
I don't think it's economies of scale, I've been told recently the local Ag merchant's had to extend credit to the larger dairy farmers. Not the small ones.....not the medium size ones...
I last had an HSE visit in 1998. He couldn't believe it was only me working here. Previous owner had 25 men working here on his last visit.....Haven't seen HSE since.....
I don't know why some on here try to compare farming to other industries. Imagine if there were no roof on the Honda car factory, and they had to rush a batch of cars out before the weather breaks. Imagine if every 3rd car was unpredictable like Christine. Imagine if Honda still sold cars at 1970's prices. I wonder what the fatality rate would be ?

Goweresque · Jun 25, 2020

chaffcutter said:
The majority are caused by being in too much of a rush.

And therein lies the other point about farming, particularly in the UK - the weather. No other industry has the same weather/seasonal time constraints that farming does. If its too wet or frosty to do construction work then the building will still be there to finish when the weather improves. But a crop of spuds will rot in the ground if not lifted before the weather breaks. And no-one knows WHEN the weather will break, so everyone has to go hell for leather because taking your time might mean losing the crop (and your income) if the weather suddenly changes.

Accurate long term weather forecasts would do an awful lot to improve farming safety.

DrWazzock · Jun 25, 2020

The huge legacy of fragile death trap asbestos roofs frightens me. I know two people within 2 miles who have gone through them with devastating life changing consequences.
But dealing with these roofs now financially you are on your own. When we change a sheet we net it underneath, and use crawling boards as we have seen the consequences of taking risks. But the process takes forever. The sheets weigh a lot and after the weathering effects of 60 years have all the strength of a damp digestive biscuit never mind the danger of release of asbestos fibres.
If ever there was a case for good use of public money as grants and subsidies it would be to help farmers and in fact any industry make these roofs safe by paying for professional contractors to deal with them, but no it’s going on butterfly meadows and all sorts of other nonsense instead.

Sharpy · Jun 25, 2020

DrWazzock said:
You would think in this day and age that they could design a PTO guard that still allowed you to grease the joints without having to go in search of a positive screwdriver to take out a fiddly little screw at each end of the shaft that drops in the stubble and can’t be found again, leaving the guard compromised and probably ready to self destruct. If the machinery manufacturers were serious about safety then that is the sort of problem they would address. It’s not beyond the wit of man to design a safe but greasable shaft with a bit of thought but it never seems to happen. Often the spider is fitted with the grease nipple facing away from the flexible cover making it even more difficult.

Bareco guard. I have one on the baler and I think its fab.

Andrew · Jun 25, 2020

Goweresque said:
And therein lies the other point about farming, particularly in the UK - the weather. No other industry has the same weather/seasonal time constraints that farming does. If its too wet or frosty to do construction work then the building will still be there to finish when the weather improves. But a crop of spuds will rot in the ground if not lifted before the weather breaks. And no-one knows WHEN the weather will break, so everyone has to go hell for leather because taking your time might mean losing the crop (and your income) if the weather suddenly changes.

Accurate long term weather forecasts would do an awful lot to improve farming safety.

But if you read the report into deaths is that really the case? Does it really take that much longer to put the handbrake on before you get out of a vehicle? Just about all other fatalities have been routine jobs where money / time / weather has nothing to do with it.

roscoe erf · Jun 25, 2020

Andrew said:
But if you read the report into deaths is that really the case? Does it really take that much longer to put the handbrake on before you get out of a vehicle? Just about all other fatalities have been routine jobs where money / time / weather has nothing to do with it.

so what was it then ?

Andrew · Jun 25, 2020

roscoe erf said:
so what was it then ?

There was one not far from here left the handbrake off while he opened a gate, vehicle rolled over him.

But if you read the report, very few fatalities are due to people doing time / weather limited things. Those that were, a safe stop doesn’t take much longer surely?

dudders · Jun 25, 2020

roscoe erf said:
so what was it then ?

Mostly, it was negligence. On someone's part. Negligence caused by stupidity, inattention or hurry.

Goweresque · Jun 25, 2020

Andrew said:
But if you read the report into deaths is that really the case? Does it really take that much longer to put the handbrake on before you get out of a vehicle? Just about all other fatalities have been routine jobs where money / time / weather has nothing to do with it.

Of course the weather has a lot do with it! Why are people working long hours? Pushing themselves (and machinery) to the limit? Because of time constraints imposed by the weather. Why am I busting a gut to get my hay baled today? Because it may rain tomorrow (or tonight). And when people are rushed they make bad decisions. Forget to put the handbrake on, get off the tractor with the baler still turning, that sort of thing. Because their mental equilibrium is disturbed by tiredness and stress. If one could knock off every day at 5pm and get back to work the next day after a relaxing evening with the family and a good nights sleep then the decision making during that day would probably go a lot better. But thats not the way for farming is it? There's always some sort of weather imposed time constraint on just about everything we do. And constantly having to fight that may well cause a good deal of the bad decision making that ends up in catastrophe.

chaffcutter · Jun 25, 2020

The worst possible statistic is the death of so many children. I know of five farmers, most now long gone, within a ten mile radius who have run over their own children or been responsible for their death in some other way.

Children, farmyards and machinery are a deadly combination.

manhill · Jun 25, 2020

7610 super q said:
How many fatalities would be cut by banning cars ?

1700/year or so

dudders · Jun 25, 2020

Those HSE fatality figures are distinctly dodgy. No deaths at all in the forestry or fishing industries. And all deaths in the South-East (4) were people over 60 being trampled by cattle in fields. No other deaths in the whole of Britain were from that cause, and no other causes of death in the South-East. Is the HSE making all this up? I can't believe that in the most populous part of the country, only 4 people were killed in the 3 most dangerous industries, in a whole 12-month, and all 4 of them 'trampled' by cattle. No falling from a height, no machinery accidents, just trampling...

Not saying it's being exaggerated - more like under-reported. I'd have expected higher figures.

manhill · Jun 25, 2020

chaffcutter said:
The worst possible statistic is the death of so many children. I know of five farmers, most now long gone, within a ten mile radius who have run over their own children or been responsible for their death in some other way.

Children, farmyards and machinery are a deadly combination.

Terrible. If this statistic doesn't make people think, what will?

Andrew · Jun 25, 2020

Goweresque said:
Of course the weather has a lot do with it! Why are people working long hours? Pushing themselves (and machinery) to the limit? Because of time constraints imposed by the weather. Why am I busting a gut to get my hay baled today? Because it may rain tomorrow (or tonight). And when people are rushed they make bad decisions. Forget to put the handbrake on, get off the tractor with the baler still turning, that sort of thing. Because their mental equilibrium is disturbed by tiredness and stress. If one could knock off every day at 5pm and get back to work the next day after a relaxing evening with the family and a good nights sleep then the decision making during that day would probably go a lot better. But thats not the way for farming is it? There's always some sort of weather imposed time constraint on just about everything we do. And constantly having to fight that may well cause a good deal of the bad decision making that ends up in catastrophe.

Back to my original point. If anyone has to work all hours god sends to the point they’re cutting corners and making potentially fatal mistakes perhaps they should sell up and work for someone else. It IS possible to run a safe agricultural business and make a profit.

I’m sure anyone’s family would rather their husband / brother / son etc admitted defeat and worked in McDonalds rather than killed themselves to get the last bale of hay in before it rained.

Clive · Jun 25, 2020

HSE need to start doing their job better clearly

I have never had a visit from them in all my years farming - we operate very strict safety so not a problem but they don’t know this

Quite frankly they should be shutting a lot of farms down until they sort their act out - the stats are clear that too many are happy to operate dangerous business

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