I look forward to influencing some of my soils but that won't be this year I figure.
I find it extraprdinary that before the writing of Eliot’s Clifton Park people just put up with the grasses that happened to be growing on their land. There were no grass or herbal seeds available to purchase. He revolutionised ley farming for sure.
what are some of the experiments you would recommend people begin with?
If i remember correctly the ph goes down in the paddocks that get priority grazing and it goes bacterial, the fallow period allows it to get more fungal, and as you said the ph sorts it'self out.
why extraordinary ? Good farmers had good pastures, bad ones, bad pastures.
There will always be a time for reseeding, or arable break, which would leave us with the modern tools, (round-up) to make a proper job ! The mix of new and old methods should be used, to our benefit
Don't count on Roundup being around for ever.......why extraordinary ? Good farmers had good pastures, bad ones, bad pastures.
Bit of a sweeping statement, but probably not far off, if the 'good' looked after their pasture well, the better grasses came to the fore, and the reverse. It's not a lot different than some of us are experimenting with today, trying to improve grasses with management. Suprised grass seeds were that 'late', although i recall being told, that farmers saved seed from a good hay crop, from what was shaken out by hand, a good a way as any, true or false, no idea.
New ley mixes have been basically several varieties of rye grass, with/out clover. It is only more recently that the mixes have been altered to include other grasses, and/or herbs/clover, which is really going back to what was a traditional good pasture. Would like to know how weed control was achieved, or again, perhaps not, we had a 'dock puller', basically a jemmy bar, with foot plate, and a long handle, best wire strainer we had for years ! Have also heard, that on corn cut with a binder, ricked and threshed, on site, most of the weed seeds came in with the sheaths, and upon threshing, were deposited in the cleanings, and not on field, as with combines, sounds about right.
So, if we get our nice new ley, established with multi species, if managed correctly, how long should/could it last ? By using those other grasses, that have not been subjected to years of tweaking, by breeders, that has perhaps reduced the amount and viability of seeds, would we get a better self sown rate, which in turn would leave the ley lasting longer, presumably pp has a degree of self seeding, to actually last. Interesting line of thought, but if true, could save us a considerable amount of cash
I got "a job" to help ensure the business(es) carries little extra weight. If in doubt, I leave the job for the cattle to do
onpasture.com
I got "a job" to help ensure the business(es) carries little extra weight. If in doubt, I leave the job for the cattle to do
pH can move amazingly rapidly with management change. Had a rep call in because we're looking at various ways to remineralise our ranch, what we can put through the water system and what to spin on, etc, because mineral sleds etc = work and it would be difficult in the techno (but not impossible)
He said "well you could put selenium, moly, cobalt on when you apply your lime" and I said we don't lime.
"Oh, but you must do, look at your 2017 tests and these ones are heaps higher, and our pH tests are higher again, you don't want to let that slide back"
"I know, Gobble, but we don't put any on, it hasn't had lime since '92"
[I think I heard a skylark in the distance]
"You're telling me your pH went from 5.5 to 6.4 and you used no lime, how the hell did you do that, what do you put on"
I could only reply that he was "telling the story"....
It's funny how ideas come back around, I was just chatting with a mate on messenger about our funny european ideas...when i farmed pretty intensively, lime was a problem, and a regular application was needed, since going less intensive for the last 20 yrs, it doesn't seem to be a major problem, any more, and that has suprised me, to the extent of doubting the results. I do know we have 2 banks, where ph is 4.5, and the cows eat it down to the roots, every time it comes round the rotation, as they are both small areas, the 'ration' includes higher ph, they will leave the higher in preference to the acidic
Going back to leys, and talking of books, freams elements of ag, from the 60's, was in a cupboard here, so been having a browse through that, very interesting to see how ag has changed since then. That could be summed up by the fact, making hay, was covered by about 15 pages, silage 2 ! But even then, additives were mentioned, not just molasses. Presumably this edition came in at the very start of the last 'revolution' of ag, but many 'principles' were the same then, as now.
My interest is grass, and as with the clifton park, grass was seen as 'temporary', and the points of creating a good 'turf' to feed the following crop, was very important. Ploughing was champion, and a regular plough, was a sign of good ag practice. On soil, the only living thing in it, that was beneficial, was worms, everything else was bad, and should be killed off. Preparation of a good seed bed, was more than we do today, but we should pay more attention to the seed bed. Direct drilling was in it's infancy, and the 'new' fantastic spray, gramoxone, had arrived to help it.
Quite a lot on bent grasses and couch, stale seed beds, to help control them. And then onto grass, simple mixtures, as to many species were counter productive, either rye grassed based, or not, clovers, white and red, aslike and birdsfoot, all commonly included, herbs were being looked at for anthelmintic properties. Non ryegrass leys were based around cocksfoot, timothy and fesques. The biggest SHOCK came with the amount of seed recommended to be sown per acre, 10 to 14 lbs, both the ryegrass, and non leys, if sown with clover, a dense ground cover should occur rapidly. WTF have we done, to go from 14 lbs/acre, to 14kg/acre, with some (me) using higher rates, to get good ground cover, something has gone seriously awry, and as have said, is the viability of grass seed compromised, either deliberately, or so highly 'developed', it needs intensive care to survive/grow.
All in all, not sure it was a good read, it's annoyed me ! The fundamental changes we have seen since that book was edited, cover my whole farming career, and yet the basic facts are the same, just ignored in the years since, i am, however, certain if we had followed the 'system' of then, till now, we would be no worse of than we are now, but would have saved £1,000's in the meantime.
On a different topic, we eat a lot of fruit, (and meat), the last couple of lots of bananas have looked 'odd', it dawned on me last night, the probable reason, straight bananas, were 'banned' by EU regulations, they all had to have the right degree of bend. The straight bananas in our fruit bowl, are the result of brexit, if that is the case, some one moved quickly.
Thanks Pete. Our three bucket reared heifers calved about a month ago and are back out with their (thriving calves). The Herefords are inside now, due to calve this month. Had little choice with calving dates for 2021 but this time the bull will be going out in August. Hopefully going to source a few more heifers and get them out on rotation early April@WoollessWhat Calving Season is Best for Your Bottom-Line?
These graziers focus on calving with nature to reduce inputs and make more money. But while May-June is great for them, it doesn’t fit for everyone. I’ve updated this article so we can …
.
It's gotta be easy when you work off-farm.Thanks Pete. Our three bucket reared heifers calved about a month ago and are back out with their (thriving calves). The Herefords are inside now, due to calve this month. Had little choice with calving dates for 2021 but this time the bull will be going out in August. Hopefully going to source a few more heifers and get them out on rotation early April
Damn right. Looks like a slight change in job direction could mean that I do a morning move/check in daylight. At the moment pre-work check involves going to the shed with torch and fingers crossed at 0415.
"You're telling me your pH went from 5.5 to 6.4 and you used no lime, how the hell did you do that, what do you put on"
I could only reply that he was "telling the story"....
May/June calving is better for the bottom line Listen to the seven ranchers in this video and you’ll hear the same reason for calving in May/June: Profit, Profit, Profit. Their gross margins are better because they don’t have to spe…
onpasture.com
I know in Europe they have been using "heritage " seeds in Organic systems and found they out perform modern bred varieties, probably due to plant breeders being conventional & giving their newly bred plants lots of "assistance ".when i farmed pretty intensively, lime was a problem, and a regular application was needed, since going less intensive for the last 20 yrs, it doesn't seem to be a major problem, any more, and that has suprised me, to the extent of doubting the results. I do know we have 2 banks, where ph is 4.5, and the cows eat it down to the roots, every time it comes round the rotation, as they are both small areas, the 'ration' includes higher ph, they will leave the higher in preference to the acidic
Going back to leys, and talking of books, freams elements of ag, from the 60's, was in a cupboard here, so been having a browse through that, very interesting to see how ag has changed since then. That could be summed up by the fact, making hay, was covered by about 15 pages, silage 2 ! But even then, additives were mentioned, not just molasses. Presumably this edition came in at the very start of the last 'revolution' of ag, but many 'principles' were the same then, as now.
My interest is grass, and as with the clifton park, grass was seen as 'temporary', and the points of creating a good 'turf' to feed the following crop, was very important. Ploughing was champion, and a regular plough, was a sign of good ag practice. On soil, the only living thing in it, that was beneficial, was worms, everything else was bad, and should be killed off. Preparation of a good seed bed, was more than we do today, but we should pay more attention to the seed bed. Direct drilling was in it's infancy, and the 'new' fantastic spray, gramoxone, had arrived to help it.
Quite a lot on bent grasses and couch, stale seed beds, to help control them. And then onto grass, simple mixtures, as to many species were counter productive, either rye grassed based, or not, clovers, white and red, aslike and birdsfoot, all commonly included, herbs were being looked at for anthelmintic properties. Non ryegrass leys were based around cocksfoot, timothy and fesques. The biggest SHOCK came with the amount of seed recommended to be sown per acre, 10 to 14 lbs, both the ryegrass, and non leys, if sown with clover, a dense ground cover should occur rapidly. WTF have we done, to go from 14 lbs/acre, to 14kg/acre, with some (me) using higher rates, to get good ground cover, something has gone seriously awry, and as have said, is the viability of grass seed compromised, either deliberately, or so highly 'developed', it needs intensive care to survive/grow.
All in all, not sure it was a good read, it's annoyed me ! The fundamental changes we have seen since that book was edited, cover my whole farming career, and yet the basic facts are the same, just ignored in the years since, i am, however, certain if we had followed the 'system' of then, till now, we would be no worse of than we are now, but would have saved £1,000's in the meantime.
On a different topic, we eat a lot of fruit, (and meat), the last couple of lots of bananas have looked 'odd', it dawned on me last night, the probable reason, straight bananas, were 'banned' by EU regulations, they all had to have the right degree of bend. The straight bananas in our fruit bowl, are the result of brexit, if that is the case, some one moved quickly.
