Unfortunately the fine has been less than the contractor’s bill in most cases.
All Wales NVZ
- Thread starter neilo
- Start date
Tarw Coch
Member
- Location
- Bottom of Wats Dyke
You know but do NRW know who the culprits are
davidroberts30
Member
- Location
- pembrokeshire
I'd say just by looking at he map most in pembrokeshire could name them
- Location
- Breconshire
Thousands of tons of Welsh Water "Bio solids" have gone up the road past me for the last few years and that is high in P and contains a level of toxic heavy metals. They dump it in massive heaps in fields and bugger off. When it rains the black shaite can be seen running to the rivers and streams.
If every farmer told WW where to stick their crap, firstly there would be a big problem for WAG of what to do with it and secondly, I reckon we'd see a huge reduction in the phos levels in our rivers.
Tarw Coch
Member
- Location
- Bottom of Wats Dyke
Do you mean most farmers?
Whilst the map posted higher up should indicate the areas of the biggest problems does the average NRW employee with no farming connection think like a farmer and see what we see and think? Somehow I doubt it otherwise suspects shouldn’t take too much tracking down
- Location
- Cumbria
These are issues that exist everywhere. Loch Neagh in N Ireland is highly polluted with P&N due to everyone with a square inch of grass having a poultry shed on it, and contract rearing for Moy Park decades of spreading Poultry manure has come home to roost 
. The Danes have strict N restrictions and a P problem after decades of spreading Pig Slurry.
The Dutch are rolling out nutrient removal and recovery technology, this has been a big issue for Dairy farmers, however they are addressing it.
Dropping out the EU may see the removal of fines to the local assembly for these high pollution levels, however that does not kill the elephant in the room - pollution.
The pressure this puts on will affect stock numbers, unless a better solution can be found. Abiding by the new regulations is one thing, being able to forward plan and grow is another.
. The Danes have strict N restrictions and a P problem after decades of spreading Pig Slurry.The Dutch are rolling out nutrient removal and recovery technology, this has been a big issue for Dairy farmers, however they are addressing it.
Dropping out the EU may see the removal of fines to the local assembly for these high pollution levels, however that does not kill the elephant in the room - pollution.
The pressure this puts on will affect stock numbers, unless a better solution can be found. Abiding by the new regulations is one thing, being able to forward plan and grow is another.
Tarw Coch
Member
- Location
- Bottom of Wats Dyke
Is it common to have problems down stream of sewage works in other countries too?These are issues that exist everywhere. Loch Neagh in N Ireland is highly polluted with P&N due to everyone with a square inch of grass having a poultry shed on it, and contract rearing for Moy Park decades of spreading Poultry manure has come home to roost
The Dutch are rolling out nutrient removal and recovery technology, this has been a big issue for Dairy farmers, however they are addressing it.
Dropping out the EU may see the removal of fines to the local assembly for these high pollution levels, however that does not kill the elephant in the room - pollution.
The pressure this puts on will affect stock numbers, unless a better solution can be found. Abiding by the new regulations is one thing, being able to forward plan and grow is another.
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
This is only the very beginning of pressure to reduce the number of ruminants in particular, in the name of the 'environment' and 'zero carbon'. They will pile on the regulations, tightening them consistently and rapidly so that it becomes economically impossible to make a living. It will be never-ending until the last man standing throws in the towel.
In my opinion many dairy farmers in particular should consider their options very seriously as to whether they even start pumping money into meeting regulations that will strangle them permanently with ever more demands until they might possibly run out of options under mounting debt.
Others, especially those with young and growing families that are keen to keep farming and dairy farming in particular for the long term may find that they can justify very significant investment to meet all the regulations. Whether they do or not probably depends on family circumstances and their current debt level. However, the next generation is not being done a favour by being bequeathed a whole heap of long term debt, so that should be a serious consideration.
The question then may become one of assessing alternative options. Can a living be made from de-intensifying the business or does it become a doomed business, unable to provide for the family, either or which way the cookie crumbles?
I do think that the next five years will see the most profound changes to the countryside and farming that anyone has experienced within living memory. This will be almost unique to the UK because mainland Europe, the EU, believes in food security while the UK does not rate it at all, much as was the case very early in the 20thC when land was abandoned wholesale in favour of 'cheap' imports.
davidroberts30
Member
- Location
- pembrokeshire
So how are these incidents logged on the map?
Are they just reports or actual nrw sittings?
Tarw Coch
Member
- Location
- Bottom of Wats Dyke
I don’t know, but if NRW do know who the culprits are, why aren’t they doing something about it?
davidroberts30
Member
- Location
- pembrokeshire
My point exactly
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
I believe that the vast majority are just reports of alleged 'incidents' that are phoned in, whether there is actually an issue or not.
Some accidents do occur no doubt and there is no doubt that some farmers are rather slipshod or even negligent. I reported one such incident to the forum a while back where someone was pumping dirty water down a bank which was running across a main road like a river of brown stuff. Hopefully a one-off and there was another bank before a cliff to the sea, so no fish were killed therefore no lynching or perps that day. However if a single fish had been killed, well, its worse than a human murder these days isn't it!
Unless its a result of Welsh Water's outfall, even a tiny stream dried up in mid Summer with a pool of stagnant water is enough for legal action against a farmer.
- Location
- Cumbria
Don't be so pessimistic, the real issue here is pollution, not the destruction of farming by stealth.
The UK is way behind many Country's, our Green lobby is pretty weak here. Unlike many others (especially Germany) where the Green's can hold the balance of power. we've been lucky so far.
To all problems their are solutions, we just need to find them.
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
It's nice to be naive I'm sure. The main objective is not pollution per-se but the elimination of livestock farming to hit greenhouse gas emission reduction tick-boxes. They daren't admit that in so many words so they are and will squeeze the sector until the pips squeak using ever more regulations that will be increasingly expensive and uneconomic to achieve. The UK is and will be way out in front with this target of net zero carbon emissions. We have already been explicitly warned to expect much of UK farmland to be turned over to parks and forests. Ignore this at your peril.
The question is, how many farmers go along with expenditure to meet regulations and potentially impoverish themselves, because they will get no more for their produce and potentially far less than currently, and how many will take any money to covert to ranch farming and how many will be forced out altogether? My bet is that the attrition rate of farmers leaving the industry will accelerate very very significantly over the next five years and within ten there will only be a fraction of current farm numbers left and there will be vast swathes of land abandoned to wilderness…… which is exactly what the majority of people want. They couldn't care less about UK farmers as long as the supermarket shelves are full of cheap food from lord knows where.
- Location
- Shropshire
I’m 100pecent
Y Fan Wen
Member
- Location
- N W Snowdonia
I'll just post this link again in case any ostriches missed it:
Food and Agriculture Report — RethinkX
Rethinking Food and Agriculture shows how the modern food disruption, made possible by rapid advances in precision biology and an entirely new model of production we call Food-as-Software, will have profound implications not just for the industrial agriculture industry, but for the wider economy, so
www.rethinkx.com
Y Fan Wen
Member
- Location
- N W Snowdonia
Thank you.
davidroberts30
Member
- Location
- pembrokeshire
reading into the rethinkx background there seems to be some sort of agendaI'll just post this link again in case any ostriches missed it:
Food and Agriculture Report — RethinkX
Rethinking Food and Agriculture shows how the modern food disruption, made possible by rapid advances in precision biology and an entirely new model of production we call Food-as-Software, will have profound implications not just for the industrial agriculture industry, but for the wider economy, so
We’re going to eat ostrich eat?!I'll just post this link again in case any ostriches missed it:
Food and Agriculture Report — RethinkX
Rethinking Food and Agriculture shows how the modern food disruption, made possible by rapid advances in precision biology and an entirely new model of production we call Food-as-Software, will have profound implications not just for the industrial agriculture industry, but for the wider economy, so