Dealing with depression - suicidal thoughts - Join the conversation (including helpline details)

Christoph1945 · Apr 5, 2021

GrannyAching said:
As to your last question. Yes. Couple of sweaty nights and all over. Do previous baggage had little or nothing to do with the body's response one.

However, I am going to flag up that men also experience a "menopause" in their forties and fifties, which is often joked about but not well understood. Science is chipping away at it.

I didn't know it at the time but when I was five years old my mother gave birth to my younger brother and must have passed through post natal depression and moved quickly into the menopause. Looking back now, many things make sense but as a child they didn't.

GrannyAching · Apr 5, 2021

Christoph1945 said:
I didn't know it at the time but when I was five years old my mother gave birth to my younger brother and must have passed through post natal depression and moved quickly into the menopause. Looking back now, many things make sense but as a child they didn't.

That's not uncommon for older women. It's a hell of a thing to contend with even now, when it's better understood.

I had a friend who list her first (and only) child in these circumstances. Hardly surprising that she never really got "through it".

wrenbird · Apr 5, 2021

primmiemoo said:
How to ask your GP to listen might be a good book title.

Went to GP reluctantly couple of years back because of various problems that seemed to be worsening, following nagging by other half to get things sorted.
Was told by GP that problems were down to my age and the menopause. At that I said that they had wasted my time with the appointment, if they looked at my records they would see that I had had a hysterectomy over fifteen years before,so not likely to be going through the menopause again. Lazy consultancy by numbers.

Christoph1945 · Apr 5, 2021

GrannyAching said:
That's not uncommon for older women. It's a hell of a thing to contend with even now, when it's better understood.

I had a friend who list her first (and only) child in these circumstances. Hardly surprising that she never really got "through it".

Is your friend still with us?

GrannyAching · Apr 5, 2021

Christoph1945 said:
Is your friend still with us?

As in alive? As far as I know, yes but a very unhappy soul (imo she may not agree) who couldn't settle and so moved in with a "total break" on a regular basis from what I can work out.

GrannyAching · Apr 5, 2021

wrenbird said:
Went to GP reluctantly couple of years back because of various problems that seemed to be worsening, following nagging by other half to get things sorted.
Was told by GP that problems were down to my age and the menopause. At that I said that they had wasted my time with the appointment, if they looked at my records they would see that I had had a hysterectomy over fifteen years before,so not likely to be going through the menopause again. Lazy consultancy by numbers.

I 'd ike to hear that they then rallied and took your problems seriously. Just because you've had a hysterectomy doesn't mean you can't have hormone related health problems (in fact the reverse if I understand things correctly).

I almost feel I'm blessed with our local gp practice and yet they are only doing what would be expected of a good practice anywhere.

wrenbird · Apr 6, 2021

Yes, things were sorted eventually. It does seem that finding the right way forward whatever your problems can be a bit of a lottery. If you are not feeling at your best, be that mentally or physically, or more likely, a mix of the two, pushing to find the best person to listen and help can be a struggle.

Chopsy Varmint · Apr 6, 2021

GrannyAching said:
My mother got major relief from using star flower (borage) oil. It was pre HRT days so you were well on your own - people were just getting into evening primrose oil which did nothing for her. It's a great hormon leveller for girls, boys, women and men and very safe as far as I'm aware.

My mum had a rough time for over a decade and we all tiptoed round her. Only now is it making sense to me and my sister but she won't talk to either of us about it.

Has your GP checked for pernicious anemia? Again this is something that affects men and women - forty onwards - and can really mess with your health, mental and physical; and sleep but which no one seems to know about or consider until faced with the more drastic physical symptoms.

No, no bloods taken at all. Last time I gave blood (admittedly pre-plague) it was all fine.

Chopsy Varmint · Apr 6, 2021

Christoph1945 said:
When you are actually aware of what is taking place with your hormonal changes and how they are affecting your mind and body your ability to stabilise your thinking is greatly enhanced. Unfortunately for me, when they pumped me full of high doses of Valium and then instantly withdrew my supply, I had no way of knowing that the turmoil and dark terrors of my mind were actually withdrawal symptoms and were not reality in any shape or form.

The above, of course, was complicated by unresolved and unhealed wounds inflicted by life. Despite knowing very little about the female changes of life that are brought on by hormonal changes induced by ageing I do sometimes wonder if some are hit worse because they carry within their memories deep psychological wounds from their pasts.

I suppose that trauma brought on by the female change of life is, in a way, withdrawal symptoms! Do some ladies pass through the change unscathed?

I don't know if having previous psych trauma makes it worse. I suspect not. It does seem to be a matter of genetics and your individual endocrine system how well/badly you get through it. Some lucky people seem to hardly notice whereas others have hot flushes and symptoms into their 70s.

Properly understanding what's going on I think is going to be a big part of getting through it. I also think people shouldn't try to hide it and talk about it (without going on and on, or using it as an excuse for bad behaviour!) so younger women are at least more prepared and know what to expect. I certainly didn't know half of it!

primmiemoo · Apr 6, 2021

GrannyAching said:
But I did have it twice. The first time was no fun!

Twice? How might that happen, if you don't mind me asking.

Christoph1945 · Apr 6, 2021

Chopsy Varmint said:
I don't know if having previous psych trauma makes it worse. I suspect not. It does seem to be a matter of genetics and your individual endocrine system how well/badly you get through it. Some lucky people seem to hardly notice whereas others have hot flushes and symptoms into their 70s.

Properly understanding what's going on I think is going to be a big part of getting through it. I also think people shouldn't try to hide it and talk about it (without going on and on, or using it as an excuse for bad behaviour!) so younger women are at least more prepared and know what to expect. I certainly didn't know half of it!

I can still remember the days when no one would talk about cancer, psychological illnesses, and of course the female menopause. The general population knew so little about any of the aforementioned, when they were hit by any of the three they were totally nonplussed and adrift in a sea of ignorance and God help anyone who was stricken by all three; knowledge is power.

When it come to GP consultations I have been contemplating writing up my ongoing problems in the form of a report, detailing how I am being affected by them, and marking up said report as copy for GP and copy for home file. Hopefully, I can avoid consultation forgetfulness and misunderstandings by getting things down in writing.

GrannyAching · Apr 6, 2021

primmiemoo said:
Twice? How might that happen, if you don't mind me asking.

As I understand it, essentially all the hormone systems went into "end of reproduction" mode in my mid thirties with all the "recognisable symptoms". I went to the doctor's as it was a bit alarming, got shot through masses of tests as my bloods were ringing alarm bells for things like brain tumors, they came back all clear but was told didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting pregnant. We decided to do our round the world trip on the motor bike, packed, lined up tenants for the house etc etc and, as you've already worked out got these really odd sensations in my stomach about a month before we were due to go! Two kids later my hormones were chugging along like normal and did do for another decade or so.

It is only biology and hormones. (All that it's not a bad story and difficult as they can make life.) I'm sure most of the men on here have had their hormones go up and down several, if not innumerable times!

Christoph1945 · Apr 6, 2021

Anyone ever find that music and song can can sooth troubling moments? I always loved the hauntingly sweet voice of Nana Mouscouri and then, one day, I attended the funeral of one of my Wife's aunts. Doris was a Greek wartime bride and had suffered from schizophrenia for most of her adult life

Along with her only son, there were just six of us present for the cremation and when they played 'Till the White Rose Blooms Again' sung by Nana Mouscouri; it was heart rending.

A couple of pieces that folk may find soothing are sung by 'Sissel'!

ollie989898 · Apr 6, 2021

Menopause is weird. I've read a lot about it. I found it really interesting and it's one of the reasons I will be looking to do an ob/gyn slot when my time comes, unusual for a bloke but then I'm odd anyway.

Regarding HRT, some people get on with it, others do not. There is a big big protective effect from having the hormones replaced, most notably in terms of the risk of stroke being way way lower, though there is an increased risk of breast cancer.

A GP not reviewing your notes prior to a consult strikes me as very odd.

primmiemoo · Apr 6, 2021

Christoph1945 said:
I suppose that trauma brought on by the female change of life is, in a way, withdrawal symptoms! Do some ladies pass through the change unscathed?

Some do, yes. I don't have any statistics as to percentage, but anecdotally some women have very few symptoms. There might be a sort of bell curve distribution, with an equal number who experience debility.

primmiemoo · Apr 6, 2021

ollie989898 said:
Menopause is weird. I've read a lot about it. I found it really interesting and it's one of the reasons I will be looking to do an ob/gyn slot when my time comes, unusual for a bloke but then I'm odd anyway.

Regarding HRT, some people get on with it, others do not. There is a big big protective effect from having the hormones replaced, most notably in terms of the risk of stroke being way way lower, though there is an increased risk of breast cancer.

A GP not reviewing your notes prior to a consult strikes me as very odd.

Having that insight will be invaluable, ollie. If you can, please encourage your male colleagues to do the same.

GrannyAching · Apr 6, 2021

ollie989898 said:
Menopause is weird. I've read a lot about it. I found it really interesting and it's one of the reasons I will be looking to do an ob/gyn slot when my time comes, unusual for a bloke but then I'm odd anyway.

Regarding HRT, some people get on with it, others do not. There is a big big protective effect from having the hormones replaced, most notably in terms of the risk of stroke being way way lower, though there is an increased risk of breast cancer.

A GP not reviewing your notes prior to a consult strikes me as very odd.

The menopause is not weird.

It's not actually unusual for men to take an interest in obstetrics or gynaecology.

I'm sure you mean well and will perhaps think a little more carefully before being quite so glib in your assessment of people's health issues.

primmiemoo · Apr 6, 2021

GrannyAching said:
The menopause is not weird.

It's not actually unusual for men to take an interest in obstetrics or gynaecology.

I'm sure you mean well and will perhaps think a little more carefully before being quite so glib in your assessment of people's health issues.

A former doctor I knew said he'd overcome many stereotypes about women during his obs and gynae training.

teslacoils · Apr 7, 2021

Well, mojo has finally vanished. Told the children they could play Nintendo all day. Best laid plans have all ground to a halt. I can't be arsed any more. Have gone back to bed.

DrWazzock · Apr 7, 2021

Post drilling anticlimax here, greatly aggravated by uncooperative weather. Can’t be bothered. Wake me when it gets to 15 deg C. And the spreader is running more out one side than to the other so that’s striped my first field of wheat. Springy crappy plastic Woolworths handles and jammy shutters aren’t a good combination. And it’s probably been backed into over winter.

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