home'n dry.....again

Sincock · Feb 24, 2021

The enzymes have been identified, isolated, grown and then added. Believe it or not there are companies supplying individual microbes and there metabolites (enzymes). The urease enzyme is everywhere as are the others. There is a very strong chance that the keyboards we are using now has the urease enzyme on it.

The handling of these enzymes and incorporating them onto the soya isn't easy or straight forward. Most manufactures heat treat the soya and enzyme which is easier but has the side effect of decreasing the reaction when urea and feed is eventually added. Mixing the urea, soya and enzyme before adding the feed reduces the reaction even more. All this will impact the end result.

Fergieman · Feb 24, 2021

What is your product @Sincock Home'n'dry?

Full of bull(s) · Feb 24, 2021

Fergieman said:
What is your product @Sincock Home'n'dry?

Sincock said:
Mixing the urea, soya and enzyme before adding the feed reduces the reaction even more. All this will impact the end result.

Going by that no as that is how five f do it. Everyone’s way is best. Norvite etc claim that home n dry can start to react in the bag before use and therefore not work properly and they claim that having the urea and enzyme separate when added and mixed you can’t get good enough contact between the two for it to work properly

Sincock · Feb 24, 2021

Annoyingly none of the products mentioned in this thread... although I'm hoping that's good news? PowerGrain is the product I / we manufacture and supply.

Sincock · Feb 24, 2021

Full of bull(s) said:
Going by that no as that is how five f do it. Everyone’s way is best. Norvite etc claim that home n dry can start to react in the bag before use and therefore not work properly and they claim that having the urea and enzyme separate when added and mixed you can’t get good enough contact between the two for it to work properly

I'd have to agree with Norvite in this instance. It's why Five F recommend using between 30-40kgs of product per tonne of feed treated compared to everyone else 20kgs. You pay your money you take your choice, if they didn't work they wouldn't be sold.

Full of bull(s) · Feb 24, 2021

Sincock said:
I'd have to agree with Norvite in this instance. It's why Five F recommend using between 30-40kgs of product per tonne of feed treated compared to everyone else 20kgs. You pay your money you take your choice, if they didn't work they wouldn't be sold.

Maybe because the rest of the weight is soya? They work out very similar price per ton treated so I would go for the product with soya added, and loads I have had tested come back well, 14.5+ cp and 9pH. Easier to use no splitting of enzyme bags etc if your batch sizes don’t match ie 5 tonnes

Sincock · Feb 24, 2021

Full of bull(s) said:
Maybe because the rest of the weight is soya? They work out very similar price per ton treated so I would go for the product with soya added, and loads I have had tested come back well, 14.5+ cp and 9pH. Easier to use no splitting of enzyme bags etc if your batch sizes don’t match ie 5 tonnes

The bags point is a valid one. You'd have to have a multiple of 5 not to waste a bag with the enzyme and soya separated, however it's the same for home'n'dry. 30-40kgs per tonne doesn't exactly fit with a 25kg bag either? As for the soya, they all contain soya. If H'n'D have an additional 10-20kgs of soya per tonne of feed maybe that's where the protein increase is coming from, although that doesn't explain the pH jump.

We had a wet chemistry analysis done by Eurofins of freshly harvested wheat (treated and untreated) that showed a CP% jump from 12.35 g/100g DM to 17.67 g/100g DM. A 43% increase.

This has turned into some what of a "who's got the biggest penis" competition, apologise.

Bottom line. If you use any product, it works and adds value then keep using it. All the products are similar and it doesn't matter which one you chose because as far as I am concerned they are all a cheaper form of protein than buying in, and that's something I think we can all agree on!

Full of bull(s) · Feb 24, 2021

Sincock said:
The bags point is a valid one. You'd have to have a multiple of 5 not to waste a bag with the enzyme and soya separated, however it's the same for home'n'dry. 30-40kgs per tonne doesn't exactly fit with a 25kg bag either? As for the soya, they all contain soya. If H'n'D have an additional 10-20kgs of soya per tonne of feed maybe that's where the protein increase is coming from, although that doesn't explain the pH jump.

We had a wet chemistry analysis done by Eurofins of freshly harvested wheat (treated and untreated) that showed a CP% jump from 12.35 g/100g DM to 17.67 g/100g DM. A 43% increase.

This has turned into some what of a "who's got the biggest penis" competition, apologise.

Bottom line. If you use any product, it works and adds value then keep using it. All the products are similar and it doesn't matter which one you chose because as far as I am concerned they are all a cheaper form of protein than buying in, and that's something I think we can all agree on!

I’m new to using it myself, treated 6 artic loads so far. Only going on what I’m told, the home n dry is roughly 50:50 urea and full fat soya with a fraction of soya hulls as a pellet binder. Alternatives recommend adding a bypass protein source afterwards for young stock, another mixing process which costs in money and time so this seemed to save that. As it turns out the end protein is too high anyway for bulls so I am adding plain barley and a few oats back in to pull it back. Just mixing it with the loader bucket though. I am adding the minerals when treating the corn to begin with. 5 bags h n d in 4 tonnes of barley

Sincock · Feb 24, 2021

Full of bull(s) said:
I’m new to using it myself, treated 6 artic loads so far. Only going on what I’m told, the home n dry is roughly 50:50 urea and full fat soya with a fraction of soya hulls as a pellet binder. Alternatives recommend adding a bypass protein source afterwards for young stock, another mixing process which costs in money and time so this seemed to save that. As it turns out the end protein is too high anyway for bulls so I am adding plain barley and a few oats back in to pull it back. Just mixing it with the loader bucket though. I am adding the minerals when treating the corn to begin with. 5 bags h n d in 4 tonnes of barley

Supplementing bypass protein is a new one to me... The best form of bypass protein is rumen microbes. There Amino Acid profile is as close as make no difference to perfect. Feed the rumen with the right energy / protein balance and the lions share of your bypass protein requirements will be met. That's why urea treated feed is such a good option as it's rumen available. We've found increased feed efficiency and a reduction in bypass protein needed. Treated wheat is as close to a perfect balance as we have found.

That being said, several people finishing cattle have said they need a little more energy to hit weight but for growing animals adlib urea treated grain plus a bale of haylage and a bucket of minerals will get you +2kgs DLWG. Not sure you'd get that with all breeds mind. Interesting though.

On a side note I think oats are massively under appreciated!

Full of bull(s) · Feb 24, 2021

Sincock said:
Supplementing bypass protein is a new one to me... The best form of bypass protein is rumen microbes. There Amino Acid profile is as close as make no difference to perfect. Feed the rumen with the right energy / protein balance and the lions share of your bypass protein requirements will be met. That's why urea treated feed is such a good option as it's rumen available. We've found increased feed efficiency and a reduction in bypass protein needed. Treated wheat is as close to a perfect balance as we have found.

That being said, several people finishing cattle have said they need a little more energy to hit weight but for growing animals adlib urea treated grain plus a bale of haylage and a bucket of minerals will get you +2kgs DLWG. Not sure you'd get that with all breeds mind. Interesting though.

On a side note I think oats are massively under appreciated!

Both Harbro and Norvite recommended it for younger cattle. Oats have to be value When they are cheaper than barley straw! I was thinking about treating a load of oats separately for a cheap 16-17cp growing ration for steers

neilo · Feb 24, 2021

Sincock said:
The bags point is a valid one. You'd have to have a multiple of 5 not to waste a bag with the enzyme and soya separated, however it's the same for home'n'dry. 30-40kgs per tonne doesn't exactly fit with a 25kg bag either? As for the soya, they all contain soya. If H'n'D have an additional 10-20kgs of soya per tonne of feed maybe that's where the protein increase is coming from, although that doesn't explain the pH jump.

We had a wet chemistry analysis done by Eurofins of freshly harvested wheat (treated and untreated) that showed a CP% jump from 12.35 g/100g DM to 17.67 g/100g DM. A 43% increase.

This has turned into some what of a "who's got the biggest penis" competition, apologise.

Bottom line. If you use any product, it works and adds value then keep using it. All the products are similar and it doesn't matter which one you chose because as far as I am concerned they are all a cheaper form of protein than buying in, and that's something I think we can all agree on!

My grain bucket holds about 900kg of barley when full, so a 25kg bag of H&D is just perfect for me.

I’ve had the treated barley tested (before and after) and it’s done exactly what it needed to do.

As to reacting in the bags, a pallet of H&D lasts me two years as I don’t feed a lot, and it still works just fine in year two.

Fergieman · Feb 25, 2021

Sincock said:
Annoyingly none of the products mentioned in this thread... although I'm hoping that's good news? PowerGrain is the product I / we manufacture and supply.

I think I would have spoke to you at the Highland show a couple of years ago on the superior stand. I think you where selling it through carrs in the North, that still the case?

bht · Mar 4, 2021

Looking to treat around 400 tons of barley this harvest to feed on Farm. Are most people milling it and treating it at the same time? Worried it will increase storage space massively, if treating it whole how are you doing it? Have a tub mixer but seems a long job in 5ton loads

d williams · Mar 4, 2021

Sincock said:
Supplementing bypass protein is a new one to me... The best form of bypass protein is rumen microbes. There Amino Acid profile is as close as make no difference to perfect. Feed the rumen with the right energy / protein balance and the lions share of your bypass protein requirements will be met. That's why urea treated feed is such a good option as it's rumen available. We've found increased feed efficiency and a reduction in bypass protein needed. Treated wheat is as close to a perfect balance as we have found.

That being said, several people finishing cattle have said they need a little more energy to hit weight but for growing animals adlib urea treated grain plus a bale of haylage and a bucket of minerals will get you +2kgs DLWG. Not sure you'd get that with all breeds mind. Interesting though.

On a side note I think oats are massively under appreciated!

Have you any suggestions for a product to go into whole peas and barley for lambs with oats added separately fed through a hopper maybe a 3/1 if needed

Old apprentice · Mar 4, 2021

bht said:
Looking to treat around 400 tons of barley this harvest to feed on Farm. Are most people milling it and treating it at the same time? Worried it will increase storage space massively, if treating it whole how are you doing it? Have a tub mixer but seems a long job in 5ton loads

Just a thaught I would say a large diamiter auger with a hopper above filter it into the auger it will be mixed out of the top. For that tonnage well worth the investment especially if you treat for several years. A bit of time will be required to get the calibration.

Fergieman · Mar 4, 2021

We have upto this last harvest treated and rolled at the same time. It does take more room to store and its not the best job to roll a big lot at the same time. Last harvest we treated in 2 diet feeders in 5 tonne batches so someone loading them and someone emptying them. Was a much moe pleasant job and could do more in a day. We also added water so it had a chance to soak into the grain before rolling.

Several options for treating

1 roll and treat at same time.
2 diet feeder
3 hopper and auger
4 mix on the floor with bucket.

If you know how much your bucket holds just add the urea and enzyme to each bucket load in the correct quantities (calibrate your bucket weight with diet feeder)
The urea and enzyme don't have to contact every grain like propcorn as the ammonia gas disperses through the grain under the sheet. Don't press down or roll the treated grain to allow this to happen.

Depending on grain moisture adding a little water is a good idea. I like the finished product to be 18-20%

Fergieman · Mar 4, 2021

RAF · Jul 6, 2021

Where’s cheapest place to get home and dry pellets ? Is that place at Clitheroe still going ? Says closed on web
Tia

neilo · Jul 6, 2021

RAF said:
Where’s cheapest place to get home and dry pellets ? Is that place at Clitheroe still going ? Says closed on web
Tia

@Adam@Rumen sorted my last pallet.

Benr · Aug 13, 2021

Maxxamom is £5/ treated ton less than home n dry. From what I can see they are pretty much the same except with maxammom you have to put the enzyme in separate? Seems worth doing for £5 /t?

home'n dry.....again

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