Eating more dairy fat linked to lower risk of heart disease

puppet · Sep 26, 2021

holwellcourtfarm said:
Heart attack rates in western society only climbed when ultra-processed diets became normal. Every country that sees such dietary change sees a big rise in heart attacks at the same time. indigenous peoples who still live on diets very high in animal products and do not eat western processed foods have incredibly low heart attack rates.

Draw your own conclusions.

Statins have an anti-inflammatory effect too as they will lower your risk of MI (heart attack) from day 1, before your cholesterol starts to fall.
One theory as I stated is that until antibiotics and vaccinations came along in the 50's there was a huge burden of infection leading to low grade ill health. Most people did not live long enough to die of heart disease then there was a huge baby boom post WW1 who were living longer by the 60s and 70s, eating poor diet and taking a lot less exercise.
The graph started to fall as diet improved again and the childhood infections of those born post WW2 faded.

DaveGrohl · Sep 26, 2021

Derrick Hughes said:
My uneducated view is that lack of exercise and to much sugar and starch in the diet are the main driver

How complicated do you want the answer to be? Short answer is your uneducated view is a good place to be. Stick to that and avoid smoking (that's the biggie that absolutely no one disagrees with).

holwellcourtfarm · Sep 26, 2021

puppet said:
The graph started to fall as diet improved again and the childhood infections of those born post WW2 faded.

This study disagrees.

Cardiovascular diseases remain the leading cause of disease burden in the world. CVD burden continues its decades-long rise for almost all countries outside high-income countries, and alarmingly, the age-standardized rate of CVD has begun to rise in some locations where it was previously declining in high-income countries.

puppet said:
Statins have an anti-inflammatory effect too as they will lower your risk of MI (heart attack) from day 1, before your cholesterol starts to fall.

That's why I still take my statin, but at a lower dose.....

holwellcourtfarm · Sep 26, 2021

Derrick Hughes said:
What was the cause

Honestly, I'm not sure (and clearly he doesn't claim to know either despite insisting I should be on several medicines that I'm contra-indicated for).

I suspect the fact that I spent all but the last 5 years of my life consuming huge amounts of sugar was a big player. As a child a jam sandwich was one of my meals most days. In my 30's and 40's I cut animal fats but regularly consumed 5 jam doughnuts and/ or 200g of milk chocolate in a day......

Derrick Hughes · Sep 26, 2021

DaveGrohl said:
How complicated do you want the answer to be? Short answer is your uneducated view is a good place to be. Stick to that and avoid smoking (that's the biggie that absolutely no one disagrees with).

Never smoked ,not a drinker used to be a road runner , healthy diet, although i ate far to much as i never put weight on , when i thought i was a gonner on in in oparatiing theatre they showed my my heart and blood vessells on the screen ,looked like a kettle full of lime scale

DaveGrohl · Sep 26, 2021

puppet said:
Statins have an anti-inflammatory effect too as they will lower your risk of MI (heart attack) from day 1, before your cholesterol starts to fall.

Indeed, there are many clever people who will tell you that the cholesterol lowering effect is actually counter-productive, and that statins can help in a very specific small group of people because they do something other than lower cholesterol, anti-inflammation being a part of that. Statins severly lower the body's production of CoQ10 which is involved in energy use in muscles. What is the heart? A muscle. Statins is a whole separate subject though. Best to avoid any reason to think about statins in the first place.

Ffermer Bach · Sep 26, 2021

Breakthru said:
Put a lump of margarine out in the back yard. Neither a bird dog cat rat or whatever will touch it. Was developed in US to fatten turkeys. Sadly it killed them so they sold it to stupid humans as healthy. It killed my mother. Heard Mary Berry telling Vegans that they could make cakes and icing with margarine rather than butter. Great news lot less vegans around soon.

I was watching GB news the other night, and on the monologue, the presenter was talking about veganism, apparently 20% of children are vegan now! Also said, children on a vegan diet were about 1 1/4" shorter than children eating meat, and their bones were less dense too. Unfortunately, when they develop osteoporosis it their 50's, it will be too late and I dare say the specialist will say, what you should have done is eat plenty of cheese, butter and drank milk when you were a child!

Ffermer Bach · Sep 26, 2021

Derrick Hughes said:
So what would the heath experts on here think is causing arteries to fir up and eventualy couse heart problems

sugar and white grains/complex carbs, which give an insulin response. The most toxic thing we eat is sugar, but incidentally has a large and very wealthy marketing organisation behind it.

The Case Against Sugar : Gary Taubes: Amazon.co.uk: Books

www.amazon.co.uk

Pure, White and Deadly: How Sugar Is Killing Us and What We Can Do to Stop It : Yudkin, John, Lustig, Robert: Amazon.co.uk: Books

www.amazon.co.uk

primmiemoo · Sep 26, 2021

One of the Drs Van Tulleken has, or had, a problem with food ~~~

‎A Thorough Examination with Drs Chris and Xand on Apple Podcasts

‎Health & Fitness · 2021

podcasts.apple.com

Highly processed food ~ which definitely includes those that get a Vegan Society (lobby group and dietry misinformation distributors) tick of approval ~ drives addictions which set up trains of events which lead to chronic and acute illnesses.

DaveGrohl · Sep 26, 2021

Ffermer Bach said:
sugar and white grains/complex carbs, which give an insulin response. The most toxic thing we eat is sugar, but incidentally has a large and very wealthy marketing organisation behind it.

The Case Against Sugar : Gary Taubes: Amazon.co.uk: Books

The Case Against Sugar : Gary Taubes: Amazon.co.uk: Books

www.amazon.co.uk

Pure, White and Deadly: How Sugar Is Killing Us and What We Can Do to Stop It : Yudkin, John, Lustig, Robert: Amazon.co.uk: Books

Pure, White and Deadly: How Sugar Is Killing Us and What We Can Do to Stop It : Yudkin, John, Lustig, Robert: Amazon.co.uk: Books

www.amazon.co.uk

Huge number of people around the world slowly sliding down into insulin resistance. There is no upside to this, it's implicated in most of the metabolic diseases that Western civilisation has foisted onto the whole world. Processed foods are gonna be the death of mankind if climate change doesn't get us first. All that lovely sugar and starch mixed in with too high amounts of industrially produced omega 6 seed oils. Exactly the sort of stuff we shouldn't be eating.

holwellcourtfarm · Sep 26, 2021

Ffermer Bach said:
sugar and white grains/complex carbs, which give an insulin response. The most toxic thing we eat is sugar, but incidentally has a large and very wealthy marketing organisation behind it.

The Case Against Sugar : Gary Taubes: Amazon.co.uk: Books

The Case Against Sugar : Gary Taubes: Amazon.co.uk: Books

www.amazon.co.uk

Pure, White and Deadly: How Sugar Is Killing Us and What We Can Do to Stop It : Yudkin, John, Lustig, Robert: Amazon.co.uk: Books

Pure, White and Deadly: How Sugar Is Killing Us and What We Can Do to Stop It : Yudkin, John, Lustig, Robert: Amazon.co.uk: Books

www.amazon.co.uk

And when Dr Gary Fettke, an Australian general surgeon, despaired at the hospital he worked in continuing to feed high carbohydrate meals to diabetic patients on whom he'd performed limb amputations and he started advising them to cut their carbohydrate intake right down and raise their consumption of unprocessed animal foods he was suspended and threatened with being stuck off. He and his wife, Belinda, have since devoted much of their time to exposing the fraud and hype in national dietary guidelines, tracing it back clearly to the 7th day adventist Church in the late 19th century and one William Henry Kellog.

The "evidence" behind the advice to cut animal protein and fat consumption and base our diets around carbohydrate doesn't stand scrutiny. It's profit driven marketing, adopted as government policy.

And, if increasing numbers of studies are right, it's killing large numbers of people and destroying the quality of life of many more.

Lincoln75 · Sep 26, 2021

Healthiest and longest living are those on a traditional Mediterranean diet or a traditional Japanese diet .

I agree with @Derrick Hughes , sugar and lack of exercise / being overweight are killers . Plenty of veg/ legumes , lean meats and oily fish will see you well , as much as I like dairy it raises cholesterol , olive oil on your bread/toast is better.

holwellcourtfarm · Sep 26, 2021

Lincoln75 said:
Healthiest and longest living are those on a traditional Mediterranean diet or a traditional Japanese diet .

I agree with @Derrick Hughes , sugar and lack of exercise / being overweight are killers . Plenty of veg/ legumes , lean meats and oily fish will see you well , as much as I like dairy it raises cholesterol , olive oil on your bread/toast is better.

Where your evidence that dairy raises cholesterol?

The body regulates its cholesterol level regardless of diet. The only study to disprove that was in rodents (that don't habitually eat meat) that were fed massive doses of high cholesterol food to create the effect. Unsurprisingly, it was funded by a drug company who sell statins.

Statins definitely reduce cholesterol in the blood. They do this by interfering with the biochemical mechanism that regulates blood cholesterol levels. That is NOT how they benefit heart attack risk though. It's been revealed as a smokescreen.

They also risk some quite serious side effects. Try finding out just how rare the "rare" ones really are and the industry closes ranks claiming the information is "commercially confidential". A recent analysis of long term outcomes across a big national dataset found a small but statistically significant INCREASE in all cause mortality in people taking statins compared to those not doing so which was inversely proportional to blood cholesterol level.

Statin side effects

There are currently seven types of statins approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

They include:

atorvastatin (Lipitor)
fluvastatin
lovastatin (Mevacor, Altoprev)
pitavastatin (Livalo, Nikita)
pravastatin (Pravachol)
rosuvastatin (Crestor)
simvastatin (Zocor)

Common side effects of all statins

Side effects reported by some people include muscle pain and digestive problems.

Muscle pain is the most common side effect caused by statin use. A 2014 assessment found that intolerance of statins is a real issue usually noted as muscle-related symptoms. It’s estimated that between 1 and 10 percent of muscle symptoms are related to statin use.

Muscle pain can be uncomfortable. However, you should call your doctor right away if you have:

unusual muscle pain or cramps
tiredness
fever
dark urine
diarrhea

These could be symptoms of rhabdomyolysis. This is a dangerous muscle breakdown condition that can cause kidney problems.

For more information on what puts you at risk of these effects, as well as how they’re treated, read about why statins cause muscle pain.

Rare side effects of all statins

While taking statins, there’s a small risk of:

memory loss or confusion
increased blood sugar, which can lead to diabetes
kidney or liver damage

Dark or bloody urine or pain in your upper abdomen or chest can be signs of serious kidney and liver disorders. If you have any of these symptoms while taking a statin, call your doctor right away.

Lincoln75 · Sep 26, 2021

holwellcourtfarm said:
Where your evidence that dairy raises cholesterol?

The body regulates its cholesterol level regardless of diet. The only study to disprove that was in rodents (that don't habitually eat meat) that were fed massive doses of high cholesterol food to create the effect. Unsurprisingly, it was funded by a drug company who sell statins.

Statins definitely reduce cholesterol in the blood. They do this by interfering with the biochemical mechanism that regulates blood cholesterol levels. That is NOT how they benefit heart attack risk though. It's been revealed as a smokescreen.

They also risk some quite serious side effects. Try finding out just how rare the "rare" ones really are and the industry closes ranks claiming the information is "commercially confidential". A recent analysis of long term outcomes across a big national dataset found a small but statistically significant INCREASE in all cause mortality in people taking statins compared to those not doing so which was inversely proportional to blood cholesterol level.

Statin side effects
There are currently seven types of statins approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

They include:

atorvastatin (Lipitor)

fluvastatin

lovastatin (Mevacor, Altoprev)

pitavastatin (Livalo, Nikita)

pravastatin (Pravachol)

rosuvastatin (Crestor)

simvastatin (Zocor)

Common side effects of all statins
Side effects reported by some people include muscle pain and digestive problems.

Muscle pain is the most common side effect caused by statin use. A 2014 assessment found that intolerance of statins is a real issue usually noted as muscle-related symptoms. It’s estimated that between 1 and 10 percent of muscle symptoms are related to statin use.

Muscle pain can be uncomfortable. However, you should call your doctor right away if you have:

unusual muscle pain or cramps

tiredness

fever

dark urine

diarrhea

These could be symptoms of rhabdomyolysis. This is a dangerous muscle breakdown condition that can cause kidney problems.

For more information on what puts you at risk of these effects, as well as how they’re treated, read about why statins cause muscle pain.

Rare side effects of all statins
While taking statins, there’s a small risk of:

memory loss or confusion

increased blood sugar, which can lead to diabetes

kidney or liver damage

Dark or bloody urine or pain in your upper abdomen or chest can be signs of serious kidney and liver disorders. If you have any of these symptoms while taking a statin, call your doctor right away.

My evidence that a lot of dairy raises cholesterol is from personal experience , I cut right back to only having milk in tea and small quantities of cheese and my cholesterol dropped to a safe level, using statins would be a last resort for me.

holwellcourtfarm · Sep 26, 2021

Lincoln75 said:
My evidence that a lot of dairy raises cholesterol is from personal experience , I cut right back to only having milk in tea and small quantities of cheese and my cholesterol dropped to a safe level, using statins would be a last resort for me.

What degree of change?

My original level (30 years ago) was 6.99
Changing my diet (including using plant stenol yoghurts) got it down to 6.2

Taking Atorvastatin dropped it to 3.1

Lincoln75 · Sep 26, 2021

holwellcourtfarm said:
What degree of change?

My original level (30 years ago) was 6.99
Changing my diet (including using plant stenol yoghurts) got it down to 6.2

Taking Atorvastatin dropped it to 3.1

Dont have figures to hand .

In favour of dairy there's a report here , its also worth noting that ethnicity has a bearing on how your body handles dairy , many S Asians are lactose intolerant.

DaveGrohl · Sep 26, 2021

Lincoln75 said:
Healthiest and longest living are those on a traditional Mediterranean diet or a traditional Japanese diet .

I agree with @Derrick Hughes , sugar and lack of exercise / being overweight are killers . Plenty of veg/ legumes , lean meats and oily fish will see you well , as much as I like dairy it raises cholesterol , olive oil on your bread/toast is better.

The whole cholesterol thing is being proven to be a monumental red herring the way they've viewed it in the past. Foods that do actually crudely raise cholesterol are the ones which are protective of human health in many cases. That's because the measures of cholesterol used in the past are the wrong measures. We now know far more about the details of cholesterol, even though many in the medical profession are oblivious to recent advances. Proper cholesterol profiling does indicate health problems but this involves much greater analysis than the standard total, LDL, HDL and triglycerides estimation. Indeed, from that simple analysis it's the HDL and triglycerides that are far more indicative of risk. Total and crude LDL measurement need consigning to the dustbin of history. Measures like C-reactive protein are being shown to be more important anyway.

However, your post is mostly correct. I'd just fine tune it by inserting the words extra virgin in front of olive oil (which is a great food for health) and remove the lean fatty in front of meats. Oh, and stop being scared of dairy since the actual evidence (rather than the hype) points to it being protective.

Lincoln75 · Sep 26, 2021

DaveGrohl said:
The whole cholesterol thing is being proven to be a monumental red herring the way they've viewed it in the past. Foods that do actually crudely raise cholesterol are the ones which are protective of human health in many cases. That's because the measures of cholesterol used in the past are the wrong measures. We now know far more about the details of cholesterol, even though many in the medical profession are oblivious to recent advances. Proper cholesterol profiling shows does indicate health problems but this involves much greater analysis than the standard total, LDL, HDL and triglycerides estimation. Indeed, from that simple analysis it's the HDL and triglycerides that are far more indicative of risk. Total and crude LDL measurement need consigning to the dustbin of history. Measures like C-reactive protein are being shown to be more important anyway.

However, your post is mostly correct. I'd just fine tune it by inserting the words extra virgin in front of olive oil (which is a great food for health) and remove the word fatty in front of meats. Oh, and stop being scared of dairy since the actual evidence (rather than the hype) points to it being protective.

Extra virgin should be a given with olive oil when used on bread / in salads , I usually get it in 5 litre tins , its much like wines in so much as different farms and regions have a different taste , as for second press , never bought any , I generally use rapeseed oil for cooking , as for meats I did state lean .
No fear of dairy here, still have milk in my tea and coffee and cheese in a salad , no desire to have a butter sandwich or deserts.

Derrick Hughes · Sep 26, 2021

holwellcourtfarm said:
What degree of change?

My original level (30 years ago) was 6.99
Changing my diet (including using plant stenol yoghurts) got it down to 6.2

Taking Atorvastatin dropped it to 3.1

I got mine down from 5 to 3 .2
Im cut my food intake down a lot now as well and lost 2 stone in 3 Months , got to be esier on the heart carrying less wait around ,i certainly cycle up hills faster

DaveGrohl · Sep 26, 2021

Lincoln75 said:
Extra virgin should be a given with olive oil when used on bread / in salads , I usually get it in 5 litre tins , its much like wines in so much as different farms and regions have a different taste , as for second press , never bought any , I generally use rapeseed oil for cooking , as for meats I did state lean .
No fear of dairy here, still have milk in my tea and coffee and cheese in a salad , no desire to have a butter sandwich or deserts.

Apols I re-read my post and have edited it now. Should've read "remove lean" from in front of meats. The ongoing "leaning" off meats is part of the problem as we're making up the calories from elsewhere. But that's a side issue when people are being convinced to cut meat out altogether. Extra virgin means (afaiui) that it is produced without the high temperatures and cancerous chemicals that most other oils are. It's perfectly possible to buy "olive oil" that isn't as healthily refined.

Two issues with oils: one is the processing and the other is the fatty acid profiles. We're lucky in the UK that the producers of highly processed foods often go for rapeseed oil rather than the more problematic oils. Another widely used one in the UK is sunflower oil. Rapeseed has a 2:1 ratio of omega 6 to omega 3, but is also high in monounsaturated fats (the FA that makes olive oil healthy). Sunflower is 71:1.We should be eating somewhere between 1:1 and 4:1 as a ratio. If we were in the US we'd be unkowingly eating oils with ratios much much higher. Corn oil is 57:1. Cottonseed is 54:1. Not good. Soybean oil is the most widely used though and it's around 7:1.

I'm guessing you know most of this so apols for banging on, many don't know.

Eating more dairy fat linked to lower risk of heart disease

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Statin side effects​

Common side effects of all statins​

Rare side effects of all statins​

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Statin side effects​

Common side effects of all statins​

Rare side effects of all statins​

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Statin side effects

Common side effects of all statins

Rare side effects of all statins

Statin side effects

Common side effects of all statins

Rare side effects of all statins