Eating more dairy fat linked to lower risk of heart disease

[Derrick Hughes]

The whole cholesterol thing is being proven to be a monumental red herring the way they've viewed it in the past. Foods that do actually crudely raise cholesterol are the ones which are protective of human health in many cases. That's because the measures of cholesterol used in the past are the wrong measures. We now know far more about the details of cholesterol, even though many in the medical profession are oblivious to recent advances. Proper cholesterol profiling does indicate health problems but this involves much greater analysis than the standard total, LDL, HDL and triglycerides estimation. Indeed, from that simple analysis it's the HDL and triglycerides that are far more indicative of risk. Total and crude LDL measurement need consigning to the dustbin of history. Measures like C-reactive protein are being shown to be more important anyway.

However, your post is mostly correct. I'd just fine tune it by inserting the words extra virgin in front of olive oil (which is a great food for health) and remove the lean fatty in front of meats. Oh, and stop being scared of dairy since the actual evidence (rather than the hype) points to it being protective.

You may be correct I dont know but if every doctor consultant and heart Surgeon disagrees with you would someone listen to a farmer if you are a farmer. you may be a qualified health expert for all i know , what medical experience do you have , all i can say its the advice they gave me when i thought i was at deaths door as clearly worked , i could not have cycled 100 miles a week before i had my attack

 

[Lincoln75]

You may be correct I dont know but if every doctor consultant and heart Surgeon disagrees with you would someone listen to a farmer if you are a farmer. you may be a qualified health expert for all i know , what medical experience do you have , all i can say its the advice they gave me when i thought i was at deaths door as clearly worked , i could not have cycled 100 miles a week before i had my attack

True , taking advice on health off on non qualified medical person is not a good idea.

 

[DaveGrohl]

You may be correct I dont know but if every doctor consultant and heart Surgeon disagrees with you would someone listen to a farmer if you are a farmer. you may be a qualified health expert for all i know , what medical experience do you have , all i can say its the advice they gave me when i thought i was at deaths door as clearly worked , i could not have cycled 100 miles a week before i had my attack

I wouldn't claim to be qualified or ask you to follow my advice in any way, it's a farming forum. All I'm doing is posting what I've learnt from making this my hobby for two years. I want to live longer than my father. There are a lot of doctors out there who know naff all about this. Holwellcourtfarm has posted about his experiences with his cardiologist, and that's a cardiologist. There are good, bad and middling in every walk of life. Some think they know it all and some seek to grow their knowledge even though they're fully qualified. Sounds like you had a good experience, it's a shame not everyone can say the same. All I'm doing is showing interest, there's a world of accepted science out there that eventually falls by the wayside. DYOR.

 

[DaveGrohl]

True , taking advice on health off on non qualified medical person is not a good idea.

I'm not asking anyone to take my advice. However, much of the new knowledge and analysis of research that has been done in the last few years has come from people who aren't medically qualified. They became interested because they found the accepted knowledge to be rather illogical in places and wanted to further their own knowledge. They then found that much research never gets published because it doesn't find in favour of the ideas that the research got funding for. Many at the top of the medical establishment are becoming uncomfortable at having their orthodoxy looked at. And of course there are many medical professionals around the world that have examined their own knowledge and found that what they were taught years ago might not have been correct, and are doing their own research and experimentation and achieving positive outcomes by altering what they had been advised to do at medical college. I find this interesting, you may not.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

True , taking advice on health off on non qualified medical person is not a good idea.

Agreed.

Sadly though many qualified medical staff are also way behind in their learning on all this.....

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Its suppisses me how muddled advice is on human health and diet , farmers seem to have a better understanding of feeding cows than experts do about feeding humans , im sure if food was rationed for the vast majority they would be healthier for it

 

[DaveGrohl]

Its suppisses me how muddled advice is on human health and diet , farmers seem to have a better understanding of feeding cows than experts do about feeding humans , im sure if food was rationed for the vast majority they would be healthier for it

I've been saying this for years. What I was taught at uni 35 years ago about feeding cows is STILL sounder than human nutrition. Where's the human DE/ME system, the DCP/RDP/UDP etc? We're still pissing about with calories. Tbf that was down to animals being surgically experimented on and anlaysis being done using different treatments. Can't really find many humans willing to be operated on in the same manner.......

 

[Lincoln75]

Its suppisses me how muddled advice is on human health and diet , farmers seem to have a better understanding of feeding cows than experts do about feeding humans , im sure if food was rationed for the vast majority they would be healthier for it

Domestic animals eat what they are given , humans in the Western world choose what they eat , we are programmed to eat fat and sugar for reserves during famine , so will power and common sense is required , lacking in a large percentage of the population.

 

[Lincoln75]

I've been saying this for years. What I was taught at uni 35 years ago about feeding cows is STILL sounder than human nutrition. Where's the human DE/ME system, the DCP/RDP/UDP etc? We're still pissing about with calories. the Tbf that was down to animals being surgically experimented on and anlaysis being done using different treatments. Can't really find many humans willing to be operated on in the same manner.......

Very healthy food and information is readily available but most choose to ignore it.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

this is a great book, that covers in snapshots a lot of the misconceptions in human diet (and he is both a medical doctor and a researcher ) so very qualified to give advice. I really enjoyed it, I did not agree with his ideas about meat eating and saving the planet, I think his knowledge of farming is limited to say the least, but on diet, spot on.

Spoon-Fed: Why almost everything we’ve been told about food is wrong : Spector, Tim: Amazon.co.uk: Books

Spoon-Fed: Why almost everything we’ve been told about food is wrong : Spector, Tim: Amazon.co.uk: Books

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[Lincoln75]

I think following either the traditional Mediterranean or Japanese diet will see you well , no one has proved any different yet .

 

[primmiemoo]

From what I've gleaned since a worrying result, our base cholesterol levels are all linked together with our vitamin D production, because we don't store our own supply within our bodies. Those of us who live in Northern European latitudes need a certain level of cholesterol in our blood just because of living in a region where sunlight isn't strong enough to top up our vit D levels. In addition to eating red meat, oily fish, liver, and egg yolks, butter is also good for vit D levels. All manner of things go wrong when humans don't have enough vit D.
Animal fats are also important in maintaining brain health. Eating only lean meat is good for protein intake, but missing the heath giving fat for brain food element.

Iirc, there's plenty of sunlight in olive growing regions which means that vit D is topped up in a body's system more readily than is possible in less sunny regions.

First press Olive oil is certainly a heathy oil because it delivers anti-inflamatory benefits ~ which is good for the heart ~ so it's sensible to consume a dose of it daily. Hazel nuts have healthy oil, too ~ for those of us who don't live in an olive growing region.

The best way seems to be moderation in all things, so a varied diet without highly processed food is the way to go.
Got my "bad" cholesterol level down by bustling about more, and going back to cooking from scratch. Caring duties and the second job had led me down the convenience and comfort foods route. Rather sadly, being released from the former has permitted focus on my own health ~ which has had curiously positive effects on everyone else.

From the information sheet below, triglycerides are more dangerous than non-HDL cholesterol. It's the fatty substance laid down in the blood from sugar and carbohydrates that narrows arteries (and that doesn't seem to have the media coverage). Non-HDL cholesterol merely bungs blood vessels up. HDL cholesterol is the healthy one that is used to make vit D. Any cholesterol test that doesn't distinguish between the two latter isn't worth the cost of the test.

It's interesting to note this bit of the article ~~

"What does having high cholesterol mean for my health?

Your risk of heart and circulatory disease is increased if you have high cholesterol as well as other risk factors, such as:

smoking
high blood pressure
being physically inactive
being overweight
having diabetes
family history of premature coronary heart disease (before 55 for men and before 65 for women)
being of South Asian origin

The more risk factors you have, the higher your risk of developing a heart or circulatory disease such as a heart attack, stroke or vascular dementia."

Maybe having high-ish cholesterol in itself doesn't seem to be the major problem it's made out to be?
From that list, and the results of my most recent health check, I am not at immediate risk of heart or circulatory disease.

The full information sheet, here

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Domestic animals eat what they are given , humans in the Western world choose what they eat , we are programmed to eat fat and sugar for reserves during famine , so will power and common sense is required , lacking in a large percentage of the population.

It would help though if we were given a concise veiw on what was good or bad
Ok , the large quue every night at the chip shop , a lot overweight , good or bad

 

[Lincoln75]

It would help though if we were given a concise veiw on what was good or bad
Ok , the large quue every night at the chip shop , a lot overweight , good or bad

Its all out there ,if you want research papers use Google Scholar .

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Its all out there ,if you want research papers use Google Scholar .

And look very carefully at:
Who funded the study
Conflicts of interest (declared and not)
Sample size
Was it "observational", especially if it was a diet study (generally very low quality data)
Representative nature of sample
How they controlled for confounding factors
Was the method massaged once the data was collected
The reporting of relative vs absolute risk levels
Whether the results support the conclusions and abstract

Faults in all of these areas and more are common in heart health papers relating to diet.

 

[Lincoln75]

And look very carefully at:
Who funded the study
Conflicts of interest (declared and not)
Sample size
Was it "observational", especially if it was a diet study (generally very low quality data)
Representative nature of sample
How they controlled for confounding factors
Was the method massaged once the data was collected
The reporting of relative vs absolute risk levels
Whether the results support the conclusions and abstract

Faults in all of these areas and more are common in heart health papers relating to diet.

and whether peer reviewed or not.

 

[puppet]

Its suppisses me how muddled advice is on human health and diet , farmers seem to have a better understanding of feeding cows than experts do about feeding humans , im sure if food was rationed for the vast majority they would be healthier for it

Most human dietary studies have been retrospective by taking a diseased population against controls and ask them how much milk they put on their cereal or how many sausages they ate 20 years ago. Others give advice on diet and try to follow up for many years but too many confusing issues.
I can feed different rations to cattle and get answers 6 months later.

 

[primmiemoo]

Mediterranean diet with added dairy shown to improve heart health in Australia

Tasty and healthy, the Mediterranean diet is acknowledged by many to be one of the more pleasant ways to stay in rude cardiovascular health. Now cheese-lovers are bound to rejoice after researchers in Australia discovered that adding dairy to the typically low-fat diet will “significantly”...

www.dairyreporter.com

Knew I'd seen this somewhere...
Dated 19/12/2018.

There was some sort of omission of information about dairy and meat consumption in the original study into the Mediterranean diet, wasn't there? It wouldn't matter whether it was an accidental omission or not, but it would have led to considerably different recommendations, wouldn't it.

 

[Lincoln75]

Mediterranean diet with added dairy shown to improve heart health in Australia

Tasty and healthy, the Mediterranean diet is acknowledged by many to be one of the more pleasant ways to stay in rude cardiovascular health. Now cheese-lovers are bound to rejoice after researchers in Australia discovered that adding dairy to the typically low-fat diet will “significantly”...

www.dairyreporter.com

Knew I'd seen this somewhere...
Dated 19/12/2018.

There was some sort of omission of information about dairy and meat consumption in the original study into the Mediterranean diet, wasn't there? It wouldn't matter whether it was an accidental omission or not, but it would have led to considerably different recommendations, wouldn't it.

Interesting paper attached.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

It would help though if we were given a concise veiw on what was good or bad
Ok , the large quue every night at the chip shop , a lot overweight , good or bad

there is an Israeli programme, that uses machine learning with microbiome makeup, that can give a personalised diet, however, it is only available in the USA and Israel, because what is good or bad is individual (and I think is dependant on personal microbiome), having said that, there are broad "rules" such as ultra processed foods are not good for us.