- Location
- Lincolnshire
How can a one day inspection prove that anything is “spot on”? It’s a tick box exercise. Constant care and attention keeps things spot on.
Red Tractor rotten turkeys
- Thread starter warksfarmer
- Start date
tullah
Member
- Location
- Linconshire
Sounds like too busy ticking RT boxes again and no time to to do the job
- Location
- South lakes
wouldnt of made news if it was any other day! things like this go on everyday! way of the world now! supermarket the brain washers of the consumer!
- Location
- Lincolnshire
I often consider the RT audited waste disposal requirements as a very simple example of the utter futility of the scheme. We show them waste transfer notes and we pass. They’ve no idea how much of our waste was conveyed by those notes, how much could have disappeared by illegal routes such as open burning, dumping in the woods or whatever. If I was a cowboy operator, which I’m not, then that audit would do absolutely nothing at all to stop me.
I passed my audit a few weeks back but tonight there could be rain pouring into my grain store. This isn’t a flow chart kind of job. It’s a job requiring constant vigilance and lateral thinking. You will never replace that with tick boxes, risk assessments or such like. And the whole thing is only as good as the weakest link or person in the chain. If they don’t care, or are overloaded, or off sick, then unless somebody has got their eye on the job then things will go wrong. We seem to be losing that to over reliance on procedure.
I passed my audit a few weeks back but tonight there could be rain pouring into my grain store. This isn’t a flow chart kind of job. It’s a job requiring constant vigilance and lateral thinking. You will never replace that with tick boxes, risk assessments or such like. And the whole thing is only as good as the weakest link or person in the chain. If they don’t care, or are overloaded, or off sick, then unless somebody has got their eye on the job then things will go wrong. We seem to be losing that to over reliance on procedure.
- Location
- DD9.
To be fair, the folder of annoying paperwork got me out of an >£30k nut contamination claim by a customer who tried to push their own failings back down the line.
It does work in our favour, but the incessant creep of new standards is not proportional to any benefit.
The best thing that happens here is the turkey is fully traceable and squeaky clean right through leaving the farm and slaughter and the large multiples supply chain which then takes over is shown for what it is.
- Location
- Yorks
For product to display the RT label, then the processing factory also has to pass a RT audit.
If that were my load of wheat which had been rejected for a single mouse dropping, the mill would have to report that rejection to RT, and I would lose my RT status until corrective action taken.
No doubt the turkey processor will be a massive company, but will they lose the right to use the RT logo until they've proved they've done nothing wrong or taken corrective action?
Is it RT's fault? Don't know. Clearly a food safety procedure either hasn't been followed or doesn't exist.
A food safety assurance scheme fit for purpose would surely make sure the chance of rotten turkeys hitting the supermarket shelf was near impossible.
More to the point, who's auditing RT? Many farm assurance quality marques processes are fundamentally flawed imho and not fit for purpose, so no surprises if there's a food safety failure.
Ours was fine this year but last year we were at my Daughter's house for her first Christmas in their new home and the Turkey had a bit of a smell, it looked fine and we were wondering if they were always like that. She was really worried about it all going wrong but it looked fine after cooking and we rather reluctantly ate it. All was fine afterwards but I'm pretty sure it was the turkey rather than anything she did in storing it.
- Location
- East Sussex
As much as I loathe RT...... they should be investigating to ensure that the producer isn't at fault and the final report should highlight any faults in the logistics of the supermarkets involved.
kiwi pom
Member
- Location
- canterbury NZ
Its not supposed to be tick box though, its supposed to be like it is on the day of inspection, every day. Just like a vehicle should pass an MOT every day not just test day.
Some people/businesses are capable of this, judging by the comments on here many are not.
Perhaps random inspections with a stricter punishment are required?
Even more reason to have your farm 100% so it stands up to any audit and they cant pin anything on you. I've no idea if RT helps this or not but I've been on enough UK farms to know a lot are s**t holes that shouldn't be allowed to produce food.
How do you keep the good and get rid of the bad?
kiwi pom
Member
- Location
- canterbury NZ
Exactly, if your farm is spot on and all processes are bang on when something like this happens you're covered. Somewhere along the line a transport company, warehouse or supermarket manager will be answering some tough questions. If their procedures aren't up to scratch, they'll be in the s**t.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
What’s being assured by RT got to do with your processes being “bang on”? My processes are bang on because I don’t want to poison somebody or fall foul of the law. Nothing to do with RT. What precisely do RT add? It’s a one day snap shot.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
We aren’t assured for lamb for example. If there was rotten lamb in the shops traced back to us, how would RT Assurance help? We could prove all our lambs were healthy at slaughter and carcasses passed by abattoir vet/inspector. Checks are already in place that far surpass anything that RT do.
- Location
- Yorks
Spot on. We're all told how important it is to be RT assured, but 1 X sprayer calibration record ticked off by a RT assessor is as much use as a chocolate teapot. The sprayer needs to be working correctly each and every time it's used. The operator sees to this being done correctly each and every time they go spraying, not the 1/365 inspection.
Tonka
Member
- Location
- N Yorkshire
Years ago, during December arrived on milk farm. Lifted one of bulk tank lids to find it full of refrigerated dressed turkeys, awaiting collection 
I expect the birds were killed mid/late November and then gas flushed, if there's the slightest leak in the packaging the gas leaks out and the bird rots, even when refrigerated, seen it a lot years ago on Hungarian turkeys bought in to make up any shortfalls on orders.
kiwi pom
Member
- Location
- canterbury NZ
Jesus, just imagining the trouble the farmer would have been in if they supplied the processor I used to work forYears ago, during December arrived on milk farm. Lifted one of bulk tank lids to find it full of refrigerated dressed turkeys, awaiting collection
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
I don’t think I’ve ever read such a load of ballcocks on one thread before. Nobody on here knows what the issue was with these turkeys, or where the problem occurred.
Yet everyone is using it as an opportunity to denigrate the farm assurance brand that almost all of our produce are covered by currently, whether we like that or not.
As for the OP & others saying on the other thread that they actively avoid anything that has an RT sticker on, which presumably includes any bread made with his own wheat, that’s little short of retarded IMO.
Anyone would think Gerald Ratner was advising you all on what to post.
Yet everyone is using it as an opportunity to denigrate the farm assurance brand that almost all of our produce are covered by currently, whether we like that or not.
As for the OP & others saying on the other thread that they actively avoid anything that has an RT sticker on, which presumably includes any bread made with his own wheat, that’s little short of retarded IMO.
Anyone would think Gerald Ratner was advising you all on what to post.
- Location
- DD9.
In my case, if it weren’t for the RT folder, I wouldn’t of had the physical documents in order and to hand to give to the loss adjuster who was assigned the case.
Now that folder makes no difference to what we do, but I’ve come to think of it as a translation device to convert our farm practices into a form understandable to the office bound box tickers who have never seen a farm and now proliferate the chain we supply.
Had it not been for the written HACCPs, risk assessments, water policies, field assessments etc, it would be all too easy for me to be painted as a clueless bumpkin, whatever I did in practice.
From that point of view I hope RT does a job for the producers here. They need to.
My views on the burgeoning organisation itself, their means of growing the business and the dirty incestuous relationships of the high offices are for another thread.
- Location
- Lancashire
A few years ago I spoke to a farmer who did a lot of turkeys and supplied Booths one year. If a customer complained for any reason then the farmer was fined more than the turkey was worth, no questions asked. The margins were slim in the first place, he never went down that road again.