Reviving neglected land

ollie989898 · Feb 11, 2022

As others have said, if you don't have the matching amount of stock for the area, get someone locally to grow cereals on it and take the land out of your productive area for a season. You'll start off the next season with a clean sweep and can reseed from there with none of the associated costs.

TlymarT_028 · Feb 11, 2022

davidroberts30 said:
please try and get a 10 year tenancy or something before spending a lot
hate to see you do massive improvements then get told goodbye

We should know the entirety of the deal by the end of the month

TlymarT_028 · Feb 11, 2022

ollie989898 said:
As others have said, if you don't have the matching amount of stock for the area, get someone locally to grow cereals on it and take the land out of your productive area for a season. You'll start off the next season with a clean sweep and can reseed from there with none of the associated costs.

Here's a question then - and I may quote or reply to some of the others that have suggested this method to see their thoughts.....grain/straw is going to be such a commodity in the next 12 months do you think it would be a deal where some of the produce could change hands or do you think that the work involved would mean a fellow farmer/contractor would expect to grow it (barley) on the land for free?

Highland Mule · Feb 11, 2022

JP_028 said:
Here's a question then - and I may quote or reply to some of the others that have suggested this method to see their thoughts.....grain/straw is going to be such a commodity in the next 12 months do you think it would be a deal where some of the produce could change hands or do you think that the work involved would mean a fellow farmer/contractor would expect to grow it (barley) on the land for free?

Definitely don't let it for nothing! I don't know the rates that could be achieved, but no doubt others will. Just be aware that your landlord might not be too impressed with you sub-letting the place for a profit - would need some diplomacy I would say. Perhaps you could use it as a way to secure grain, straw and/or hay for your own animals too.

TlymarT_028 · Feb 11, 2022

Highland Mule said:
Definitely don't let it for nothing! I don't know the rates that could be achieved, but no doubt others will. Just be aware that your landlord might not be too impressed with you sub-letting the place for a profit - would need some diplomacy I would say. Perhaps you could use it as a way to secure grain, straw and/or hay for your own animals too.

That's more what I was thinking to be honest, acquiring some of the grain and or straw as payment would be exactly what I would be looking for

ollie989898 · Feb 11, 2022

JP_028 said:
Here's a question then - and I may quote or reply to some of the others that have suggested this method to see their thoughts.....grain/straw is going to be such a commodity in the next 12 months do you think it would be a deal where some of the produce could change hands or do you think that the work involved would mean a fellow farmer/contractor would expect to grow it (barley) on the land for free?

This will all depend on what people you have to partner with and their attitude.

Bear in mind an arable farmer will have to spray the stuff off, plough it, cultivate it, drill it with his seed and then probably use atlantis +/- BLW sprays to clean the land up. He will also have to correct his P and K plus apply nitrogen.

I have known arrangements in the past where the host farmer recieved the straw off the land in question and no rent or other payment changed hands.

You may also have a local livestock guy who will happily grow maize, beet or whole crop on the land, by letting him use a segment each year you are helping him and he is helping you. Whether any money changes hands will depend on the locality and what competition for land is like. Around here land you are willing to let someone plough is sought after to the tune of £200+/acre rents.

Just letting someone take hay off the land may involve a fair bit of cost and outlay on his part depending on the level of weed ingress and the like.

Anymulewilldo · Feb 11, 2022

ImLost said:
Why can't I find land owners like this?

There is one not far from me… but he’s pulled the “straighten it up at either free rent or very little then rent it out for 3 haylage cuts until it’s knackered again” too many times now! None of us locals bother with it.

Derrick Hughes · Feb 12, 2022

JP_028 said:
Very much like the idea of using the hay as payment for clearing it. Do you think there would be a want for the hay even with the weeds in it? Found it to be a fair bale for bedding and sold 20 bales of stuff off it before the tenancy was secure to a fella just over the hill who said the cattle went mad for it!

If it's got ragwort don't even think of baling it ,

Humble Village Farmer · Feb 12, 2022

Electricfencer said:
Why are we no fun?

Because you don't subscribe to the industrial food system ideology where farmers provide the labour and capital and all the other links in the chain take the money.

It's interesting that there are two schools of thought on this thread: plough, top, spray (and probably add fertiliser too) spend spend spend; or mob graze, and improve at no cost while your stock appreciate.

I would think very carefully before spending any money unless it's on livestock which will appreciate or fencing to manage them with.

Edit: And I wouldn't consider taking off organic matter in the form of hay; keep it standing for your own benefit and graze and trample it it in. Nor would I be too concerned about scrub and brambles, they are deep rooted and provide forage as well as habitat for biodiversity. You might get the odd sheep caught up but you sound keen enough to keep the stock checked.

Derrick Hughes · Feb 12, 2022

And the 4 Ace Cards in farming are Lime Grass and Clover Seed and Firtilizer,shame Firtilizer is now the Joker , but grass seed and lime is the cheapest improvement you will ever buy

ollie989898 · Feb 12, 2022

Humble Village Farmer said:
Because you don't subscribe to the industrial food system ideology where farmers provide the labour and capital and all the other links in the chain take the money.

It's interesting that there are two schools of thought on this thread: plough, top, spray (and probably add fertiliser too) spend spend spend; or mob graze, and improve at no cost while your stock appreciate.

I would think very carefully before spending any money unless it's on livestock which will appreciate or fencing to manage them with.

Edit: And I wouldn't consider taking off organic matter in the form of hay; keep it standing for your own benefit and graze and trample it it in. Nor would I be too concerned about scrub and brambles, they are deep rooted and provide forage as well as habitat for biodiversity. You might get the odd sheep caught up but you sound keen enough to keep the stock checked.

'Industrial food system ideology'. What, a bit of chemistry, lime and fertiliser and suddenly we're extremist farming? Come on now.

Lakes Nash · Feb 12, 2022

Lots of different recommendation, we took 10 acre back that had not been touched for 8 years, I had to go in with a 3.6m levelling bar as there was ant hills size of wheelie bins, tried to top a perimeter first but was gonna break it, made hay of the flat bit, full of mole hills, ant hills and old scrub grasses, it was like lime spreading with all the dust, but it took 6 months to see a good flat bottom, but you cannot plough ours as it is just grazing land with a few outcrops of rock

Bucks Boy · Feb 12, 2022

You can mob graze those fields for a life time but they won’t change much. Sheep won’t do on scrub and brambles. I’ve reseeded and ask myself two questions: Why didn’t I do it before and why haven’t I done the next field. New leys are mind blowing in production. Herbal leys have no volume for winter fodder requirements. Brambles have no life beneath them, it’s really dark,and removing sheep from them drives me insane. You’ll get out of that land what you’re able to put in.

Anymulewilldo · Feb 12, 2022

Humble Village Farmer said:
Because you don't subscribe to the industrial food system ideology where farmers provide the labour and capital and all the other links in the chain take the money.

It's interesting that there are two schools of thought on this thread: plough, top, spray (and probably add fertiliser too) spend spend spend; or mob graze, and improve at no cost while your stock appreciate.

I would think very carefully before spending any money unless it's on livestock which will appreciate or fencing to manage them with.

Edit: And I wouldn't consider taking off organic matter in the form of hay; keep it standing for your own benefit and graze and trample it it in. Nor would I be too concerned about scrub and brambles, they are deep rooted and provide forage as well as habitat for biodiversity. You might get the odd sheep caught up but you sound keen enough to keep the stock checked.

He won’t need too worry about brambles in a couple of years anyway.

Bokey · Feb 12, 2022

You only reap what you sow there's a lot of grassland round me that would of been in an old fashioned rotation grass mangels barley wheat back to grass but now is just permanent pasture may look pretty with all these different species in it but really has lost its body produces stuff all good for these environmental schemes I suppose

glasshouse · Feb 12, 2022

ollie989898 said:
This is the danger, you get 'given' land that is in hell of a state, tidy it up and then suddenly the landlord rents it out to someone else for big money.

Been doing that my whole life
Once u get a shithole looking good , suddenly the neighbours all want it and stab you in the back

davidroberts30 · Feb 13, 2022

glasshouse said:
Been doing that my whole life
Once u get a shithole looking good , suddenly the neighbours all want it and stab you in the back

hence the 10+year agreement..

glasshouse · Feb 13, 2022

davidroberts30 said:
hence the 10+year agreement..

Haha
It taKes ten yrs

TlymarT_028 · Feb 14, 2022

Derrick Hughes said:
If it's got ragwort don't even think of baling it

All fields that were baled to sell had the ragwort pulled before being cut....I may not be born into farming but not stupid

if anyone sold me hay with it in I'd be making them eat it - therefore I won't be selling any hay with it in either

Danllan · Feb 14, 2022

JP_028 said:
Nothing has been signed sealed or delivered yet so I'm not holding my breath just yet - just keeping everything crossed

Don't do or install anything permanent until you have it all in writing! I underlined the word 'all' because you really do want as much as possible spelt out clearly in black and white; later 'surprises' can lead to friction, no matter how well things start.

Without needing a postcode, part of county will do, where are you?

Reviving neglected land

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