Devil's advocate
Member
- Location
- Posh side of Barnsley
Well of course.
If you have blackgrass or any difficult grass weed. It needs a 5 year ley grazed years 1, 3 and 5, 2 & 4 cattle or hay.
Back to minimum tillage ?
- Thread starter Smithjamesjohn
- Start date
If you have blackgrass or any difficult grass weed. It needs a 5 year ley grazed years 1, 3 and 5, 2 & 4 cattle or hay.
- Location
- East meath/dublin
Indeed he is and who could blame him ?? Hes on his own with a sizeable area to cover and contract work as well .
A new approach that offers time and fuel savings while maintaining yields has got to be worth a shot and im sure he will make it a success .
Come to think of it id say there are very few things that would best the same fella
Me i have my own reasons for sticking with the plough but should grain prices go south and diesel and fert remain expensive then we all will be taking a look at DD .
ollie989898
Member
In Ireland you boys plough a lot more though, no?
CORK
Member
- Location
- East Cork, Ireland
Definitely. A number of factors why BG hasn’t taken off here to the same extent (yet).
With our rainfall, any properly heavy land (by U.K. standards) is in permanent grass for the most part so only lighter soils are cropped.
This land can be ploughed well.
Ploughing would still be the main cultivation method but min till would be quite popular too.
Biggest arable crop is spring barley.
Early sowing of autumn cereals wouldn’t be popular for disease and BYDV reasons.
In addition, the state advisory service and the Irish seed trade do a lot to highlight the risks of grass weeds.
So, thankfully things haven’t become serious here yet but vigilance is required. As farms get bigger, attention to detail can suffer.
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds
Most of Suffolk was sheep if you go back far enough. I think you need over 50% grass to deal with blackgrass using grazing animals.
Devil's advocate
Member
- Location
- Posh side of Barnsley
10% & rogueing would be a good start?
- Location
- Suffolk
I think this is where cautious use of a straw harrow could work here. Im concerned about sweeping BG seeds into the open cracked summer ground (but maybe I'm overthinking this).
I also think with a seeder unit the harrow is the only way I'm going to rapidly establish cover crops with our low fixed cost/low labour approach during the busy periods.
Hereward
Member
- Location
- Peterborough
Most of East Anglia for that matter, very little left and that tells you something.
If there was any money in it, that wouldn't be the case.
- Location
- Berkshire
I’ve been around a few farms in the last few weeks that all have BG, there is quite a bit around this year…
One, which DD’s and has grass is dirty, including behind a 2yr cutting ley
Everyone has a different approach and that’s what is so frustrating about BG, there’s so much seed in the profile that a slight compromise in control will lead to it rearing it’s ugly head, results vary from year to year to further compound the matter but I’m going in the right way, it’s slow and frustrating but the one technique I’ve avoided is ploughing due to its use previously, it just further mixes up the seed bank and brings up more of a problem imho
One, which DD’s and has grass is dirty, including behind a 2yr cutting ley
Everyone has a different approach and that’s what is so frustrating about BG, there’s so much seed in the profile that a slight compromise in control will lead to it rearing it’s ugly head, results vary from year to year to further compound the matter but I’m going in the right way, it’s slow and frustrating but the one technique I’ve avoided is ploughing due to its use previously, it just further mixes up the seed bank and brings up more of a problem imho
That’s the same as we found. The 3 fields we ploughed this year because of some crap beans (long story) have the most grass on.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
I suppose the success or failure of ploughing depends on your seed return history. If there is a lot of seed already mixed through the profile its going to be less effective. But here we found it nipped a small problem in the bud particularly on light land where burial is most effective. Ploughing alone wouldn't solve a moderate to large blackgrass problem, but I think it curtails spread into clean fields etc by burying small amounts of introduced seed and rendering them insignificant, whereas if left unburied, those small amounts of seed soon become a big problem.
Ploughing with good old 12" ucn bodies doesn't leave massive slabs to break up either
I saw a programme about Norwich the other day, it was the second city of the UK all built on wool, how times change
- Location
- Berkshire
Inconsistent SB does seem to be a thing with DD
My own trials of split fields have given an extra 0.5t/ha over DD by a shallow pass with the Kockerling
In the same trial an Avatar gave an extra 0.5t/ha over the Sprinter direct, it’s a fickle crop that likes to go in the ground and grow, any barrier to that slows it up
Yes agree, it is fickle. We’re going to essential for a shallow cultivation with a Claydon whilst sowing the cover crop pre spring barley, and probably remove the straw infront of spring barley too.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
I have two fields in their third year of DD spring barley this year. A kind of low input cheap and cheerful experiment.
A third field was sugar beet last year and and is also spring barley this year.
The field that was beet was only paraplowed and power harrowed and rolled before drilling barley but it already looks twice the crop of the purely direct drilled crops.
The direct drilled spring barley is respectable but it is suffering from compaction issues in my estimation and possibly a disease build up through lack of rotation. But its always the heavy areas that start to show up with poor establishment and slow growth due I think to naturally occurring compaction/slumping. Actually this years "direct drilled" spring barley did have a run over with the disc in the autumn in the hope of leaving some tilth for the drill in the spring, so I suppose to say its DD is unfair but it's as near as dammit.
I am not saying ploughing would have been better. It would have lead to overloose seedbed on the sand and erosion and if done late would have dried the heavy areas too much.
I suppose I am saying these techniques need using judiciously. DD in first and second years after ploughing works well for us, thereafter unless its loosened in some way, compaction seems to creep in and erode yields. I supppose that's where covers could build structure. My mind is never closed!
A third field was sugar beet last year and and is also spring barley this year.
The field that was beet was only paraplowed and power harrowed and rolled before drilling barley but it already looks twice the crop of the purely direct drilled crops.
The direct drilled spring barley is respectable but it is suffering from compaction issues in my estimation and possibly a disease build up through lack of rotation. But its always the heavy areas that start to show up with poor establishment and slow growth due I think to naturally occurring compaction/slumping. Actually this years "direct drilled" spring barley did have a run over with the disc in the autumn in the hope of leaving some tilth for the drill in the spring, so I suppose to say its DD is unfair but it's as near as dammit.
I am not saying ploughing would have been better. It would have lead to overloose seedbed on the sand and erosion and if done late would have dried the heavy areas too much.
I suppose I am saying these techniques need using judiciously. DD in first and second years after ploughing works well for us, thereafter unless its loosened in some way, compaction seems to creep in and erode yields. I supppose that's where covers could build structure. My mind is never closed!
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Do you get a nice fine seedbed for Pre ems to work compared to other systems... I certainly cannot.
Niab have done work recently that in pure no till, the efficacy of herbicides is less, but so many other factors bring so much to the party they more than make up for it.
- Location
- Essex
What's the verdict on stubble raking, does it help or not?
@Smithjamesjohn we've been wresting with this issue for 8 years now at our Lamport R&D site - link here https://www.agrovista.co.uk/lamport-agx there are some short clips which cover many of the suggestions/problems mentioned in this thread.
If you, or anyone else for that matter, would like to visit the site we're holding open days on 5th & 6th July - if you drop me a PM I'll send an invitation.
We've made plenty of mistakes over the years and we're still learning but we've got some demonstrable successes too and we'd be happy to share our experience.
If you, or anyone else for that matter, would like to visit the site we're holding open days on 5th & 6th July - if you drop me a PM I'll send an invitation.
We've made plenty of mistakes over the years and we're still learning but we've got some demonstrable successes too and we'd be happy to share our experience.