The Good Life

wanton dwarf · Mar 23, 2023

ollie989898 said:
You can't really be self-sufficient in food or energy- not without accepting some very real limitations on your life.

What I find funny about this sustainability conversation is that the best way to be sustainable is to have livestock - for mutliple reasons but the best one is a living fridge in Winter.

Note how todays modern visionarys are destroying the livestock industry.

Some not very bright people about being paid far too much money.

ollie989898 · Mar 23, 2023

Bury the Trash said:

When you think you've seen everything the world has to offer and then you see that.

Clive · Mar 23, 2023

wanton dwarf said:
They aren't smart - you've fell heavily for marketing.

There is no intelligence, Google's AI was that bad it got basic information incorrect - and Google lost about 5% of it's stock price. The main reason being Googles database of information holds a LOT of biased information. Which isn't sorted by what is factually correct, it's sorted by who pays the most money.

there have been many AI fails so far - some far more shocking that google recent fail

thats the nature of innovation

you really don’t understand fundamental difference between AI and an algorithm/ traditional coding though - go read more, it’s certainly not marketing !

the book i mentioned is very good

ollie989898 · Mar 23, 2023

wanton dwarf said:
What I find funny about this sustainability conversation is that the best way to be sustainable is to have livestock - for mutliple reasons but the best one is a living fridge in Winter.

Note how todays modern visionarys are destroying the livestock industry.

Some not very bright people about being paid far too much money.

The reason some people are paid far too much money is because people with too much money are willing to invest in virtually anything they believe has real legs and will be the next big thing. This means market perception/image are intrinsically over-valued.

wanton dwarf · Mar 23, 2023

Clive said:
its a beta natural language AI - it makes mistakes but is a LOT smarter than you or I will ever be

but crucially it gets smarter everyday day, just like a human AI learns from
experience, success and failure, it does this at pace and scale incomprehensible to a human brain

Clive, seeing as you know all about AI.

Where is this AI getting it's information from ?

It's not smart, it's just a repository of information. It doesn't even have the sense to know whether the information is correct. It has no idea what-so-ever.

If I told it humans have a tail, it would say so.

TBH, I guess it suites the gullable. It'll really interesting to see how some people will be led down the garden path when they trust "AI" and then lose their life savings to criminals.

Clive · Mar 23, 2023

wanton dwarf said:
Clive, seeing as you know all about AI.

Where is this AI getting it's information from ?

It's not smart, it's just a repository of information. It doesn't even have the sense to know whether the information is correct. It has no idea what-so-ever.

If I told it humans have a tail, it would say so.

TBH, I guess it suites the gullable. It'll really interesting to see how some people will be led down the garden path when they trust "AI" and then lose their life savings to criminals.

where does a child get its information from ? how does learn to become the scientist that cures a cancer ? AI is the same just infinitely faster and smarter than a human brain

you sound like a flat earther ! it’s real and is already solving problems humans brains can not

renewablejohn · Mar 23, 2023

Old Boar said:
I sort of did it for many years, when the children were young. All our own veg (365 onions), fruit, molly lambs for meat, a house cow for milk, butter, cheese, reared the calf for the freezer, pigs for the whey and buttemilk. Swopped some meat for bags of flour, so all home made bread and baking. Chickens for eggs and meat (surplus eggs in a tub of isinglass) so lasted all year. Home made wine and elderflower cordial. Dont ever make pea pod wine...
Wood for cooking and heating. A car was swapped for a side of beef. In-calf heifers were bought in, calved, tamed, and sold to bring in enough to pay the electricity etc. We had a Welsh cob to pull a harrow, logs etc and he taught the children to ride.
We bought in coffee, sugar and loo rolls.
Material was bought to make into clothes, yarn for knitting...
The lamb hides were cured and used as rugs. Every animal has enough brain to smush and cure its own hide.
Yes, it was a lot of work, but I was young and fit. There is a pride in producing a good meal from your own work. The childrn had woods, a stream and acres to play in and make dens, and one den, up a tree, is still there...
I still grow all my own veg and fruit. Tonight is chicken and leek pie, with spuds -all home grown.
I have never had a McDonalds, a kebab or a Starbucks. I dont think I am missing out.

Nothing wrong with pea pod wine just treat it as poor mans whisky.
We have been about 75% down the self sufficient route for the last 15 years going the extra 25% would not be that difficult. Energy wise cooking and central heating all biomass. Electric from hydro .solar and biomass. Biggest thing with fruit and veg is storing the glut 365 days a year thats vermin proof normally bottled frozen or dried. Major breakrhrough for me was elimination of weeds by pasteurisation which then allows for simple sow, pr*ck out, transplant harvest routine on no dig land. Protection of crops with cloches and shade netting eliminates pests, diseases and evaporation reducing water requirement. Pigs and chickens for main meat but supplemented by deer pheasant rabbits and pigeon. Could easily keep a cow but allergic to cheese so never been a priority. Always been on stream water. Nearly anything is possible the most non uk thing I grow is peaches which we eat fresh June through to end of August but bottle surplus for the rest of the year.

wanton dwarf · Mar 23, 2023

Clive said:
where does a child get its information from ? how does learn to become the scientist that cures a cancer ? AI is the same just infinitely faster and smarter than a human brain

you sound like a flat earther ! it’s real

I suggest you read this statement over a few times.

It is significantly incorrect.

The only reference to Smart is the ability for the AI to do a database search - which has been available for over 30 years.

If you fed the AI with nonsense - which a lot of the Internet is - the AI wouldn't know any difference. Because it's just data. It has no idea what that data is or means.

It's just a set of patterns - which is how it will approach language and indeed painting - which is why you see deformed hands, teeth and legs in AI pictures. It has no intelligence other than what a programmer has put in.

Andrew_Ni · Mar 23, 2023

Whitewalker said:
Not sure u need a pasteuriser for your jersey cow , save u the electric

TB! Couldn’t pay me to drink raw milk.

Andrew_Ni · Mar 23, 2023

ollie989898 said:
I would love to do a time and motion study on the robot farmers I know. I would put money on the fact they are doing as many hours with robots as they were previously.

I visited a dairy farm in south dakota back in August. Had their robot shed going about a year. 1800 cows through 20 robots. 2 people on a 12hr shift managing the place. They didn’t treat, breed or feed or really need to touch a cow. Just ensured robots were operating to their potential. 6000 cows in total. The herd staff managed the cows.

DrWazzock · Mar 24, 2023

There’s a recently joined “member” who I think is an AI construct, not a human being. I won’t name names as I don’t want to cause offence if that member isn’t a bot.

Kiwi Pete · Mar 24, 2023

Bury the Trash said:
@Kiwi Pete

It's the bogroll that's the priblem

ollie989898 · Mar 24, 2023

If I ever found myself drinking pea pod wine or caught Mel B urinating on me whilst I wasn't looking, I'm afraid it would take at least 10 minutes whilst I rethought all the decisions I'd made in my life that led to those moments.

Kiwi Pete · Mar 24, 2023

DrWazzock said:
There’s a recently joined “member” who I think is an AI construct, not a human being. I won’t name names as I don’t want to cause offence if that member isn’t a bot.

I agree, our fixed view of the world and how it operates is created, if we open up then it is just as easy to be our own created way of being in life!
It was easily observed during the pandemic how much can be created if we are asleep at the wheel.
Some cunning press releases and people assume laws have been passed, but no - just some amplification that we would prefer to be right, than be connected.
We would rather be in a herd in fear, than free of fear, in case someone says it's wrong to have a life worth living. A dearth of natural intelligence

Suffolk Serf · Mar 24, 2023

Clive said:
why did Tom and Barbara want to do it in the 70’s ?

this isn’t about the why - the question is “can” it be done and is it easier or harder than it was ?

Probably easier nowadays- we now have Amazon and You Tube (and internet forums of course). In the '70's they just had John Seymour books.

Kevtherev · Mar 24, 2023

Clive said:
that’s not how ai work - that’s the past !

Stockfish, the worlds most powerful chess AI for example was never taught the rules of or how to play chess, it watched learned and figured it out - within 3 games it was best in the world

AI is creative

tonight my 10yr old asked ChatGPT4 tonwrite him a bedtime story about a superhero called “super piggy” saving the world - he then streamed it to the sonos in his bedroom vs text to speak, it was a very good story snd he enjoyed it

Dall-e then created a illustration for him !

this is not a web search or selected logic - its original and creative, it could provoke infinite answers to this sane request and learn to adapt based on feedback and experience

View attachment 1101263

good or bad this stuff will change EVERY aspect of our world, the power is incomprehensible

Wouldn’t it of been better if dad had read the young man a proper bedtime story out of a book?
Call me old fashioned.

DrWazzock · Mar 24, 2023

Kiwi Pete said:
I agree, our fixed view of the world and how it operates is created, if we open up then it is just as easy to be our own created way of being in life!
It was easily observed during the pandemic how much can be created if we are asleep at the wheel.
Some cunning press releases and people assume laws have been passed, but no - just some amplification that we would prefer to be right, than be connected.
We would rather be in a herd in fear, than free of fear, in case someone says it's wrong to have a life worth living. A dearth of natural intelligence

It’s a bit of an aside, but we were discussing here which fancy seed mix to buy to sow for a sheep ley and how we were going to establish it to save moisture, soil structure and diesel etc. And we looked across the field we intended to sow that mix in and the bare earth was already greening up with a whole range of grasses and broad leaved “weeds” naturally attuned to our locality. We have the sheep in there at the moment on hay and nuts and they are already starting to graze this natural local “mix”. And we thought “what if we just leave it to sort itself out?’ It won’t be high output but it won’t cost anything either. Then you ask yourself about “high output”. Who’s saying it has to be high output? Not us. Ok we could maybe overseed it or stitch a bit in, and we’ve been knapsacking out the buckthistles but that big bank of local “weed seed” already in the soil is what grows here. There’s Fat Hen, a load of fescues, annual meadow grass, chickweed, sheep’s sorrel, self set clover and ryegrass : all the stuff that decided it could get along here so leave it be and see what happens eh?

Whitewalker · Mar 24, 2023

Andrew_Ni said:
I visited a dairy farm in south dakota back in August. Had their robot shed going about a year. 1800 cows through 20 robots. 2 people on a 12hr shift managing the place. They didn’t treat, breed or feed or really need to touch a cow. Just ensured robots were operating to their potential. 6000 cows in total. The herd staff managed the cows.

A ream of people doing 12 hr shifts on the robots, the vets , Ai staff , calvers , feeders , drafters , mechanics, maintenance,the office staff , then where does the feed come from ? The hauliers, the contractors the list is endless .

Whitewalker · Mar 24, 2023

Andrew_Ni said:
TB! Couldn’t pay me to drink raw milk.

Fair enough, depends where u are I suppose

BuskhillFarm · Mar 24, 2023

Whitewalker said:
Fair enough, depends where u are I suppose

Same here NI where we are has the highest tb rates in the world.

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