NUM3 - Legume Fallow, now rotational

Clive · Aug 17, 2023

tjhooker said:
Very keen to know the mix, great result by the sound of things!! Thank you!

a couple pics as promised - taken yesterday eve and it’s alive with bugs and bees. - seed starting to set for winter as well

ok this was June 10 established but it was so dry bavk then it didn’t do anything until it started raining lots in early July so i think mid July after barley would be fine most years - winter Ahl2 would be a slightly different mixture as well with early seeds in mind then summer ahl2 all about flowers ?

tjhooker · Aug 18, 2023

Clive said:
a couple pics as promised - taken yesterday eve and it’s alive with bugs and bees. - seed starting to set for winter as well

ok this was June 10 established but it was so dry bavk then it didn’t do anything until it started raining lots in early July so i think mid July after barley would be fine most years - winter Ahl2 would be a slightly different mixture as well with early seeds in mind then summer ahl2 all about flowers ?

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Wow, great to see!! Great result!!

Clive · Aug 18, 2023

tjhooker said:
Wow, great to see!! Great result!!

the potential issue would be in a droughty year I guess but that's the case for many option so you would hope derogations would maybe com into play if circumstance beyond a farmers reasonable control prevented a sfi am being met ?

yellow belly · Aug 28, 2023

Clive said:
the potential issue would be in a droughty year I guess but that's the case for many option so you would hope derogations would maybe com into play if circumstance beyond a farmers reasonable control prevented a sfi am being met ?

The other issue you may find that this is stretching the aims of this option and the rules may be tightened up

I have found June planting is fine for wild bird mixes but waiting till after winter barley is likely to have a failed ahl2 mixture this side of the country and a loss of payment
when we grew rape after winter barley it was often too dry for it to grow before late august
some plants may flower but will they produce seed from early august emergence

day length In June helps June planting by early august there is a much shorter day

benny6910 · Oct 8, 2023

Sorry to jump on this so late but I’ve started a stewardship fallow agreement this year and I’m applying for sfi so I can potentially swap to a legume fallow instead? I’m I right in thinking this will be allowed if I get in to sfi?

yellow belly · Oct 9, 2023

benny6910 said:
Sorry to jump on this so late but I’ve started a stewardship fallow agreement this year and I’m applying for sfi so I can potentially swap to a legume fallow instead? I’m I right in thinking this will be allowed if I get in to sfi?

mid tier has a legume fallow option paying the same as sfi legume fallow very similar in aims but the Sfi is less prescriptive
at the moment I am in mid tier and intend to aply for sfi within a month
I am going to try to ad options that are in both
I am sur at some point in the future the computer system will show both ss and sfi once the defra technicians can get it working

also if you use the Sfi options it is possible to increase or reduce the area of sfi on declaration this May no be possible if you do not have the option on your sfi keeping options open

farmerfred86 · Nov 20, 2023

Reading these comments... I think if the general public knew the reality of this they would be surprised. Most people are happy for farmers to be incentivised to do good for wildlife, BUT if you ask people if they are happy for farmers to be paid to stop growing food and put whole fields down to wildlife measures they would think twice. Especially if they could pay less tax instead.
I really dont think the UK wildlife is in a desperate state enough to need vast areas of wild bird food. Madness.

Try to succeed · Nov 21, 2023

I’ve heard some peoples’ plans/recommendations for NUM3; intending to sow in spring and destroy in August prior to first wheat. Does this actually have any possibility of achieving the aims? I’m aware it’s rotational, but I’d swayed towards AHL2 due to seed cost, but also I’d have thought this would have to be early autumn sown and kept at least until the following August to achieve any aims? Am I wrong?

BenAdamsAgri · Nov 21, 2023

Try to succeed said:
I’ve heard some peoples’ plans/recommendations for NUM3; intending to sow in spring and destroy in August prior to first wheat. Does this actually have any possibility of achieving the aims? I’m aware it’s rotational, but I’d swayed towards AHL2 due to seed cost, but also I’d have thought this would have to be early autumn sown and kept at least until the following August to achieve any aims? Am I wrong?

To fulfil the requirements of the option, a legume fallow must be established that produces flowering plants from late spring and during the summer months, including May, June, July and August.

cb387 · Nov 22, 2023

BenAdamsAgri said:
To fulfil the requirements of the option, a legume fallow must be established that produces flowering plants from late spring and during the summer months, including May, June, July and August.

Wording from Gov website as follows so there is some flexibility in timing

"Late spring and during the summer months will usually include May, June, July and August, but this may vary according to your location and setting."

BrianV · Nov 22, 2023

Clive said:
i’ve spoken to defra as well. - it’s up us to decide how we achieve the aims of each standards - its intentionally less prescriptive than previous schemes and they are not out to catch you out - i believe it’s been said by @Janet Hughes Defra in relation to various standards that they won’t penalise historically on inspection but will advise or stop paying if aims are not being achieved for whatever reason

as long as i can achieve the standard aims i foresee no problem and even in years where for reasons beyond control (drought etc) i imagine derogation will be possible as it has with various sub schemes in the past

if AHL2 doesn’t work for you due to timing i would suggest the rotational legume fallow could instead maybe AHL3 ?

Isn't it more the case that because the government have made such a mess of it Defra are for now playing down any penalties or rules if you get it wrong to simply try & encourage more farmers to sign up, this may of course not be the case after a change of government next year & back dated penalties could very easily be reinstated.

BrianV · Nov 22, 2023

Clive said:
a couple pics as promised - taken yesterday eve and it’s alive with bugs and bees. - seed starting to set for winter as well

ok this was June 10 established but it was so dry bavk then it didn’t do anything until it started raining lots in early July so i think mid July after barley would be fine most years - winter Ahl2 would be a slightly different mixture as well with early seeds in mind then summer ahl2 all about flowers ?

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Very pretty but what is the point, this is neither going to feed non existent birds or starving people so it's in effect a complete & utter waste of taxpayers money.

Clive · Nov 22, 2023

BrianV said:
Isn't it more the case that because the government have made such a mess of it Defra are for now playing down any penalties or rules if you get it wrong to simply try & encourage more farmers to sign up, this may of course not be the case after a change of government next year & back dated penalties could very easily be reinstated.

i don’t think that’s the case personally - i think they have just listened to what farmers have said for years ….. we know how to achieve the aims you desire best

remember this is the first time in decades DEFRA have had a scheme - their previous role was simply to police EU schemes they had no design input into

Clive · Nov 22, 2023

BrianV said:
Very pretty but what is the point, this is neither going to feed non existent birds or starving people so it's in effect a complete & utter waste of taxpayers money.

it’s feeding many thousands of birds right now - i think it’s exceptional value to the tax payer and feedback from many in our village has already confirmed that to me

BrianV · Nov 22, 2023

Clive said:
i don’t think that’s the case personally - i think they have just listened to what farmers have said for years ….. we know how to achieve the aims you desire best

remember this is the first time in decades DEFRA have had a scheme - their previous role was simply to police EU schemes they had no design input into

Taking an awful lot on trust with no recourse if the rules are tightened with a Labour government desperate for funds.

BrianV · Nov 22, 2023

Clive said:
it’s feeding many thousands of birds right now - i think it’s exceptional value to the tax payer and feedback from many in our village has already confirmed that to me

Are they the same ones walking to the local food bank?

BrianV · Nov 22, 2023

Clive said:
it’s feeding many thousands of birds right now - i think it’s exceptional value to the tax payer and feedback from many in our village has already confirmed that to me

So you have these "thousands" of birds stuffing themselves now in Nov, I wonder what they will all be competing to eat next February in the snow when this "bird seed" disappears.

Bangers&Mash · Nov 22, 2023

Does anyone know if NUM3 could follow straight on from AHL2 at all if it was drilled early March? or would this be classified as dual funding perhaps.

GmB · Nov 22, 2023

BrianV said:
So you have these "thousands" of birds stuffing themselves now in Nov, I wonder what they will all be competing to eat next February in the snow when this "bird seed" disappears.

Bit like my IGL2 trial, bugger all seeds to feed on now, and it‘s only the end of Autumn.

cb387 · Nov 22, 2023

Bangers&Mash said:
Does anyone know if NUM3 could follow straight on from AHL2 at all if it was drilled early March? or would this be classified as dual funding perhaps.

Would that depend on when the AHL2 is established?

NUM3 - Legume Fallow, now rotational

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