Hedge rules now law

Punch · Mar 5, 2024

My argument and response to consultation was these regulations came in due to the “damage” we were previously doing by hedge cutting. Bird numbers had dropped due to our actions.
So now after 18 years of cross compliance we must have turned a corner and bird life is a plethora!
No, the wildlife charities still have the general public believing that farmland is a barren waste land.

Therefore, hedge cutting closed period hasn’t made a difference to bird life, so stop interfering!

Rant over I’ll breath now

Vader · Mar 5, 2024

Its a strange thing.
So if I plant a hedge on my own land with my own money (no grant) I can not do what I want with it...
There was no habitat till I planted it. So if its cut every year, so no difference than when there was no hedge.
Argument for having to follow rules if you got a grant for it.

Bit like ditches. No ditch, no habitat. Make a ditch, suddenly its habitat and got to be carful.

Levelsman · Mar 5, 2024

Vader said:
Its a strange thing.
So if I plant a hedge on my own land with my own money (no grant) I can not do what I want with it...
There was no habitat till I planted it. So if its cut every year, so no difference than when there was no hedge.
Argument for having to follow rules if you got a grant for it.

Bit like ditches. No ditch, no habitat. Make a ditch, suddenly its habitat and got to be carful.

There was ALWAYS a habitat there - it's just that a DIFFERENT habitat is being created!

Eg Ground nesting birds need big open spaces to survive - plant hedges and corvids have extra cover to decimate.

Whichever lobby shouts the loudest usually gets their message adopted!

Great comment from @Punch !

serf · Mar 5, 2024

Kidds said:
quaint

I'd calll it something else to that

serf · Mar 5, 2024

Vader said:
Its a strange thing.
So if I plant a hedge on my own land with my own money (no grant) I can not do what I want with it...
There was no habitat till I planted it. So if its cut every year, so no difference than when there was no hedge.
Argument for having to follow rules if you got a grant for it.

Bit like ditches. No ditch, no habitat. Make a ditch, suddenly its habitat and got to be carful.

Yep , moral of the story , leave it a wide open prairie cos they will use it as a stick to beat you with else

Kidds · Mar 5, 2024

Bizarre how these townies have so much to say about farmers and their hedges when for the most part they rip theirs out and put in fence panels.
I will carry on doing what I do when I think it is best. This week I have been topping an overgrown hedge by hand as my hedgecutter can't reach it, I don't care what the date is but if I did disturb a bird nesting I would never forgive myself. The actual fact of the matter is the bird would just go on to make a new nest and start again.

By the way, how come magpies are not controlled properly because they will do infinitely more damage to the bird population compared to hedgecutters.

Kidds · Mar 5, 2024

serf said:
I'd calll it something else to that

I'm getting the feeling you are not a big fan of hedgelaying. Forgive me if I have misread the signs .

PB1507 · Mar 5, 2024

The wildlife and countryside act is sufficient legislation, it covers everyone both town and countryside. Adding this discriminatory rule to agriculture will ensure no more hedge planting on this farm , EVER. I urge all farmers to follow suit and inform everyone possible.

serf · Mar 5, 2024

Kidds said:
I'm getting the feeling you are not a big fan of hedgelaying. Forgive me if I have misread the signs .

Done a few yards years ago and found it the most thankless task out there

Poorbuthappy · Mar 5, 2024

devonbeef said:
so can you lay hedges in march cutting off surplus bits with chainsaw as you lay? if you check for nests before, its ok ?or is that illegal now to?

The nonsense of the CS grants, is that you can coppice or lay a hedge up to the end of march, but cannot cast up the bank after the 1st of March if it has a hedge on top

So those laid hedges will have to go unfenced and uncast until the following winter?

Bury the Trash · Mar 5, 2024

Poorbuthappy said:
The nonsense of the CS grants, is that you can coppice or lay a hedge up to the end of march, but cannot cast up the bank after the 1st of March if it has a hedge on top
So those laid hedges will have to go unfenced and uncast until the following winter?

O was always taught that casting up is better done earlier anway because getting in to spring it wont have time to settle and will dry out more.
tbf a midi digger can work and travel in the wetest conditions so it really shoudldve been planned and done by now.
casting ontop of laid afterwards will spoil the laid stuff and possibly kill it

andybk · Mar 5, 2024

PB1507 said:
The wildlife and countryside act is sufficient legislation, it covers everyone both town and countryside. Adding this discriminatory rule to agriculture will ensure no more hedge planting on this farm , EVER. I urge all farmers to follow suit and inform everyone possible.

Except it doesnt , developers rip hedges out ,whenever huge swathes down here, all year round

Hay Maker · Mar 5, 2024

devonbeef said:
so can you lay hedges in march cutting off surplus bits with chainsaw as you lay? if you check for nests before, its ok ?or is that illegal now to?

It is legal to trim hedges by whatever means now providing you do not disturb any birds or nests in doing so.

Poorbuthappy · Mar 5, 2024

Bury the Trash said:
O was always taught that casting up is better done earlier anway because getting in to spring it wont have time to settle and will dry out more.
tbf a midi digger can work and travel in the wetest conditions so it really shoudldve been planned and done by now.
casting ontop of laid afterwards will spoil the laid stuff and possibly kill it

Wouldn't disagree with any of that, but the stipulations are the hedge bank restoration is not permissable after 1st march only if there's a hedge on the bank - which is what seems out of kilter with coppicing/ laying until 31st.

tullah · Mar 5, 2024

serf said:
Yep , moral of the story , leave it a wide open prairie cos they will use it as a stick to beat you with else

Yes. Beware of planting anything as in no time they'll nationalise it.

farmerm · Mar 5, 2024

Vader said:
Yeah but they lost all that early data.
So now sfi is here.
"Tell us your hedge condition and soil carbon details and we give you a few peanuts for the data to screw you over later with.."

I think that’s a little paranoid. As part of SFI I have agreed to complete plans and do soil tests, I need to demonsthis has been done if I am inspected. Have I missed where it says we must submit this information to the RPA as a un-redacted copy or even submit this data at all

farmerm · Mar 5, 2024

Punch said:
Not through legislation yet but the consultation last September suggested fixed penalty fines with a reduction for admitting error and early payment. Similar system to driving infringements (speeding, bus lane etc).

If I recall the Brexitiers declared that wouldn’t work, that we would be free to do what the heck we liked after cross compliance ended, I said it will be fixed penalty fines but they said noo, enforcement would be too difficult without the RPA being able to withhold payments.. yeah,

fecking eegits

topground · Mar 5, 2024

farmerm said:
I think that’s a little paranoid. As part of SFI I have agreed to complete plans and do soil tests, I need to demonsthis has been done if I am inspected. Have I missed where it says we must submit this information to the RPA as a un-redacted copy or even submit this data at all

No requirement to submit data. YET!
Unless they require your data as part of the scheme in the future how else will they measure outcomes?
Measurable outcomes are few and far between with SFI. Your data provides an easy means of demonstrating ‘ public money for public good’ remember that?

neilo · Mar 5, 2024

Dave645 said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/consu.../summary-of-responses-and-government-response

if you want to understand the joke that was the consultation, read the results 702 farmers represented 82% of the farmers that filled it in, so a grand total of around 828 farmers and the rest of the total 8692 were non farmers. So sure they were happy to sell farmers down the river as it doesn’t cost them anything.

Maybe more farmers should have got off their arses and filled it in?

farmerm · Mar 5, 2024

topground said:
No requirement to submit data. YET!
Unless they require your data as part of the scheme in the future how else will they measure outcomes?
Measurable outcomes are few and far between with SFI. Your data provides an easy means of demonstrating ‘ public money for public good’ remember that?

The measured outcomes are the areas and hedge lengths put into the scheme… I would argue the details held in 20,000 sets of hedgerow reports in 18,000 different formats created by 18,000 different farmers and land agents/advisors would be anything but easy, just a means of demonstrating inconsistency.

Hedge rules now law

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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