Farming without subsidies, is there a way....what's your suggestion.

DrWazzock · Feb 17, 2017

Finishers maybe aren't so reliant on BP directly as they tend to fill sheds or feedlots to fatten, not big acreages of land generally. Same goes for intensive pigs and chickens.

You can't grow combinable crops in a shed. Hence they are more vulnerable to subsidy cuts, which are area based.

Henarar · Feb 17, 2017

Hilly said:
For ploughing.

no idea, as for me I will stick with my good old native British blue cross calves

Henarar · Feb 17, 2017

DrWazzock said:
Finishers maybe aren't so reliant on BP directly as they tend to fill sheds or feedlots to fatten, not big acreages of land generally. Same goes for intensive pigs and chickens.

You can't grow combinable crops in a shed. Hence they are more vulnerable to subsidy cuts, which are area based.

not sure about that I know a few beef finishers with vast acreage
GUTH for one

onthehoof · Feb 17, 2017

DrWazzock said:
How do you work that one out?

Everything is paid for, no rent or interest,no fert or herbicides, very little hard feed, just silage or hay we make ourselves with old kit. Leave the grass down permanently if you like. Enough sheds now and handling kit.

My mate reckons it costs £300 per year to keep a suckler cow.

The cows can be troublesome if mismanaged in the run up to calving but a lot less risk than spending thousands on the arable then getting too dry or wet and losing money.

I could save more by going down the hay route in blocks of small bales. No expensive plastic, no big loader needed during the winter to move them and plenty of demand here from the horse people for the quality ones. Much prefer small bales of hay here in the sheds during the winter. Can be gaffed up before the neighbour has found his jump leads.

Simple and low cost is way ahead.

And I thought we were the only old fashioned ones left

Hilly · Feb 17, 2017

Henarar said:
not sure about that I know a few beef finishers with vast acreage
GUTH for one

Aye but when you have to have 1000 sucklers to make it pay single handed you will be wanting a black un.

Henarar · Feb 17, 2017

Hilly said:
Aye but when you have to have 1000 sucklers to make it pay single handed you will be wanting a black un.

I though it was only coal men that got that trouble

digger64 · Feb 17, 2017

gone up the hill said:
Only the cost of cattle will drop, the value of all other inputs will depend on the exchange rate and are not connected to the price of stores in any shape or form.

People that think input costs will go down if subs go are living in cloud cuckoo land im sorry to say!

Will have to be connected if there is no sub income

digger64 · Feb 17, 2017

Hilly said:
For ploughing.

Come from dry arid grain growing areas where grass isnt favoured lots of cheap corn though

digger64 · Feb 17, 2017

davieh3350 said:
Please tell... How will anyone scraping by raising beef, suddenly be able to afford to set up a milking parlour.
How many more dairy farms can the country have, before milk's getting poured down the drain as there's so much of it it's worth nowt.

H.P.

digger64 · Feb 17, 2017

Henarar said:
6 months

So if it was possible too reduce that period significantly somehow would go along way towards replaceing sub income for alot of cattle farmers then

onthehoof · Feb 17, 2017

gone up the hill said:
Only the cost of cattle will drop, the value of all other inputs will depend on the exchange rate and are not connected to the price of stores in any shape or form.

People that think input costs will go down if subs go are living in cloud cuckoo land im sorry to say!

But maybe beef price will rise especially if exchange rate makes Irish un competitive, if beef price rises stores will follow suit

davieh3350 · Feb 17, 2017

digger64 said:
H.P.

What happens when the price of milk plummets, will I sell the dairy cows and ask the company whom I'm in an hp deal with to come take it away? Or am I tied into paying on?

Henarar · Feb 17, 2017

digger64 said:
So if it was possible too reduce that period significantly somehow would go along way towards replaceing sub income for alot of cattle farmers then

I have been trying to invent the hover cow for years but so far its not gone well

keep sheep help pay for straw for the cows though, one way to look at it

Hilly · Feb 17, 2017

Henarar said:
I have been trying to invent the hover cow for years but so far its not gone well
keep sheep help pay for straw for the cows though, one way to look at it

So subsidise your self ! great give me a shout middle of lambing time and i will remind you why your doing it

Henarar · Feb 17, 2017

Hilly said:
So subsidise your self ! great give me a shout middle of lambing time and i will remind you why your doing it

I was talking about hoggets we have in for keep, I don't have to look after them

Hilly · Feb 17, 2017

Henarar said:
I was talking about hoggets we have in for keep, I don't have to look after them

Ah, now thats a good idea.

Kiwi Pete · Feb 17, 2017

davieh3350 said:
You're not really entering into the theme of the thread are you, it's about practical ideas on how you'd run your farm if subs stop. As you're not coming up with any, does that mean you don't have any and that you'd quit if they stopped?

As for the price of calves, if there was no sub cheque influencing the market like you said it does, then you wouldn't need to worry about that, as it wouldn't happen, farmers would start demanding more and not just take what they get, and the native breeds need a hell of a lot less inputs to do well, even though they'd take longer.

That's the one. I don't want to say 'in the real world' but without subs blurring things, everything is intrinsically linked to everything else. The main factor keeping things like fert expensive, is the demand for it. The thing making your grain cheap, is the production of it..
So these things all remain relative to each other over a time period. Hence my opinion to build up a financial buffer now if you are able, and to work out what parts of your existing systems are absolutely necessary, and which ones are only necessary to mask a symptom caused by said system.
May be @fonterra farmer will be able to say if he knows any farmers in NZ routinely predipping/wiping, premilkng.. I think we don't need to with a more outdoor based system? So it's little things like that, that need to be carefully evaluated on a cost/earnings ratio.
The list seems to go on and on in farming systems, what's nice to have vs what's vital to have.
I think it would be really beneficial for all of you that are predicting no more subs, to be having a few trials without things, while there's still that little extra income. Then if there is a spectacular backlash/failure, it's easier to recover.
For the permanent pasture operators, probably not a lot to reduce, other than how often you reseed. Some will find leaving things as they are for longer has two benefits. Obviously it's cheaper to oversow than plough it all up and lose the structure that was just returning from the last plough..
It's exciting times for you guys

Henarar · Feb 17, 2017

Hilly said:
Ah, now thats a good idea.

yea but we don't get so much per head as we would if we looked after them

digger64 · Feb 17, 2017

davieh3350 said:
What happens when the price of milk plummets, will I sell the dairy cows and ask the company whom I'm in an hp deal with to come take it away? Or am I tied into paying on?

Thats up to you -called life

Farmer T · Feb 17, 2017

On the arable side surely by giving up £1.5 billion in direct subsidies this is the ideal time to talk about plant breeding techniques?

Look at the news about Vit D shortages. If this was bred into a cereal crop surely this would be progress (I have absolutely no idea if this is possible).

I'm not against subsidies going but if we're giving that bargaining chip away I want the industry/ NFU to try and negotiate something that would make us competitive.

It's all very well to talk about New Zealand/ USA markets but they are completely different in regards to location/ demand and local competition.

If we give them away and gain nothing it's a race to the bottom for food production which will harm farmers, the economy and the next generation.

Farming without subsidies, is there a way....what's your suggestion.

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