Farming without subsidies, is there a way....what's your suggestion.

[Kiwi Pete]

I think you might be quite suprised by what we have to do....

Oh the good old days of milk goes in the vat, the rest goes down the tile drain and out to sea... how does the Waikato hound you dairy men. Southland definitely got a bad rap when Waituna lagoon flipped, they tested all the groundwater for nitrates and found it was highest at Balfour, where the bulbs grow.. they were putting on a tonne of ammonium nitrate twice a year when I worked the harvester up there..
Otago is really relaxed by Southland/ECan standards, environmental protection wise.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Oh the good old days of milk goes in the vat, the rest goes down the tile drain and out to sea... how does the Waikato hound you dairy men. Southland definitely got a bad rap when Waituna lagoon flipped, they tested all the groundwater for nitrates and found it was highest at Balfour, where the bulbs grow.. they were putting on a tonne of ammonium nitrate twice a year when I worked the harvester up there..
Otago is really relaxed by Southland/ECan standards, environmental protection wise.

Waikato Regional Council is always watching.....

 

[unlacedgecko]

In the sub days this was just a wee lifestyle block owned by an engineer. He had a crappy set of sheepyards made from scraps gathered from his work at the freezing works up the road. Ran about 200 ewes. I was only born in 1980 and subs went in 84.
Last guy here intended to use it for youngstock for his bigger Angus stud up the valley, but then got C in his leg and sold the big farm. He put on the barn and fenced it all into 5 acre paddocks with the idea it could be sold off as blocks, if the town expands then it's the only way it can go, rest is either swampy stuff river or sea.
Plan here was to graze dairy heifers as he had done, but no show of that based on dairy outlook and the grass around the country means nearly all have cut back herd size and grazing everything on.
Currently I've 50 friesian bulls, 100 would have been good but they are worth 50% more than 3 years ago. Paid $400 a head and most are $500 plus.
Store lambs I needed about 700 but have 475, same story, they're going for more at the saleyards than on the hooks. Everyone going crazy trying to eat all the grass they've got. Now. Strategy is I'm sussed for winter so aim to have 180 mixed beefies here either under the trees or in the barn while it's wet, and as many winter lambs as they can find me. Good early lamb premium, could maybe triple my money on them if they finish before the spring lambs come on tap. That's the big plan at this stage. Soils and systems are suited well to finishing/fattening youngstock. Maybe dairy heifers again, just don't like not getting paid.
Have to add that this is just a part-time occupation as well, Mrs B helps over calving next door and relief milks, I do engineering mechanical stuff on the side, plus all the ploughing/cultivation/seeding for a couple of local farmers and manage a runoff block for one. Hopefully by the time I run out of puff I will have my mortgage down a lot and can play the rest by ear. Financials did look good, but large amount of the income generated is down to having stock to trade [emoji6]

Great post mate, thanks for the info.

When you say you want as many lambs as they can find you, does that mean you use agents/buyers to source your stock? Do you go to market yourself ever?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Great post mate, thanks for the info.

When you say you want as many lambs as they can find you, does that mean you use agents/buyers to source your stock? Do you go to market yourself ever?

Bit of both. I go to sale every Wednesday but have a few agents that seem to know where all the cheap lambs are around the place. Have had about half come directly from other farms, and half through the yards which gets a yarding fee.. not that I'm tight or anything.. trouble with the sales is the bidding gets a bit hot most of the time. Pens of stores going $90 when the works half a mile away is paying $90. Have paid an average of $65 or so, normal year I'd not pay more than $55 unless they were mighty beasts. $25 margin beats no margin. I did talk one of them into a fairly good commission though, free pumpkins for no charge either way

 

[Hilly]

we don't get production support now

And livestock trading at twice the price as when we did.

 

[caveman]

Bit of both. I go to sale every Wednesday but have a few agents that seem to know where all the cheap lambs are around the place. Have had about half come directly from other farms, and half through the yards which gets a yarding fee.. not that I'm tight or anything.. trouble with the sales is the bidding gets a bit hot most of the time. Pens of stores going $90 when the works half a mile away is paying $90. Have paid an average of $65 or so, normal year I'd not pay more than $55 unless they were mighty beasts. $25 margin beats no margin. I did talk one of them into a fairly good commission though, free pumpkins for no charge either way

Do you the buyer or does the vendor pay the yard fees?

 

[Henarar]

And livestock trading at twice the price as when we did.

you would hope so how many years ago was it they done away with intervention ? everything else has gone up why shouldn't livestock ?

 

[onthehoof]

@Kiwi Pete, out of curiosity I sometimes look at farms for sale in NZ, can you clarify a couple of things, they often mention stock units which is the capacity of the farm presumably in a 'normal' year, am I right in thinking 1 stock unit is equivalent to 1 cow per 5 acres roughly?
Also they will say Farm is capable of 'wintering' so many livestock units, is this because this is the minimum the Farm can keep as presumably you can keep more stock in summer, what I'm trying to say is why say wintering instead of summering.Thanks

 

[Kiwi Pete]

A stock unit is the equivalent of a ewe for a year as I understood it, in dad's day... so a lamb is .8 or so su
A calf is about 5 stock units cow 7 or so, dairy cow is hard to qualify or quantify into stock unit terms but more than 7 lol. So basically a 'sheep equivalent'- in very broad terms. I will track down the info properly as that is fairly misleading, I suspect.
Yes pretty correct, far north of course is summer dry to the point of autumn calving or at least split calvings.
Down this far it's not repeat not summer dry. Winter wet enough, hence we winter cattle in.. probably one of the few drystock farms doing so, dairy guys are getting herdhomes but not many beefies have a roof here.
Wintering here is grazing sheep on kale, swedes, some beet now.. cattle the same.. and on grass behind a wire for hoggets especially, so the area in crop has a bearing on winter carrying.
Vendor claimed 1200su.
That was 160 calves =800su
400 lambs summer 600 lambs winter (with a gap over spring)=400su
He'd done that for last 5 or 6 years comfortably...a dry summer and was in the cack for grass though. So I'm aiming to get the rootzone extended

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Do you the buyer or does the vendor pay the yard fees?

The vendor.. which means you end up paying $4 for their $3!! Hot bidding though. About $2.50/kg LWT so $75 /30kg lamb . $1.73 / £ today. How do yours compare, apologies for off topic (don't think emigration is the solution just yet)

 

[Kiwi Pete]

@Kiwi Pete, out of curiosity I sometimes look at farms for sale in NZ, can you clarify a couple of things, they often mention stock units which is the capacity of the farm presumably in a 'normal' year, am I right in thinking 1 stock unit is equivalent to 1 cow per 5 acres roughly?
Also they will say Farm is capable of 'wintering' so many livestock units, is this because this is the minimum the Farm can keep as presumably you can keep more stock in summer, what I'm trying to say is why say wintering instead of summering.Thanks

Here ya go @onthehoof
See i was wrong
Lambs are probably 1.2 1.5su. if you're finishing them fast on a 20 day round

 

[onthehoof]

View attachment 473644
Here ya go @onthehoof
See i was wrong
Lambs are probably 1.2 1.5su. if you're finishing them fast on a 20 day round

Thanks Pete
What I don't understand is that most of NZ is supposed to get 800 to 1200mm of rain spread equally through the year about 4 inches of rain per month which is much more than here but you always seem to be worried about drought, always saying whether a Farm is summer safe or not.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

It's never spread out they way you'd want it to be.. if you could save up a few excess inches from winter and deliver it now, it would be handy.
Dairy man next door is milking once a day, has been for a month, same as last year.. just can't grow the grass to feed the herd, again.
It's a common problem, and we live next to a coastal rainforest, so it's not exactly pumping in North Canterbury etc. Less than 2 inches for the YTD.
Doesn't help production when you pick the highest producing PRG and whichever white clover looks best and call it a pasture mix. Lol. Show me a recipe that only contains two ingredients and we'll call it toast..
So to get neatly back on topic, there's two types of farmers here too. Some really progressive ones and some really habitual ones too.
"Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting a different result"

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Thanks Pete
What I don't understand is that most of NZ is supposed to get 800 to 1200mm of rain spread equally through the year about 4 inches of rain per month which is much more than here but you always seem to be worried about drought, always saying whether a Farm is summer safe or not.

But the range is about 350-6400mm, and the rainis quite unpredictable, any month you could get as little as 0-10mm or as high as 200-250mm. Here we can have 750mm of rain over 12 months or over 1500mm, next to nothing all month or over 150mm over night!

 

[FonterraFarmer]

It's never spread out they way you'd want it to be.. if you could save up a few excess inches from winter and deliver it now, it would be handy.
Dairy man next door is milking once a day, has been for a month, same as last year.. just can't grow the grass to feed the herd, again.
It's a common problem, and we live next to a coastal rainforest, so it's not exactly pumping in North Canterbury etc. Less than 2 inches for the YTD.
Doesn't help production when you pick the highest producing PRG and whichever white clover looks best and call it a pasture mix. Lol. Show me a recipe that only contains two ingredients and we'll call it toast..
So to get neatly back on topic, there's two types of farmers here too. Some really progressive ones and some really habitual ones too.
"Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting a different result"

Yes PRG and white clover, what is noticable out in the paddocks over the last week or two is the spead of Colenso, not patchy but quite even too

 

[unlacedgecko]

But the range is about 350-6400mm, and the rainis quite unpredictable, any month you could get as little as 0-10mm or as high as 200-250mm. Here we can have 750mm of rain over 12 months or over 1500mm, next to nothing all month or over 150mm over night!

No no I just don't believe it. I'm sure on here I've read that the climate of NZ is a major reason why we can't match your lamb COP...

 

[davieh3350]

No no I just don't believe it. I'm sure on here I've read that the climate of NZ is a major reason why we can't match your lamb COP...

It's only because we get the wrong type of rain.

 

[unlacedgecko]

It's only because we get the wrong type of rain.

Is that like the wrong kind of leaves on a railway?

 

[Y Fan Wen]

How can Govt possibly implement them without some sort of support carrot combined with financial penalties if the rules aren't followed?
It just isn't possible!

A farming licence is introduced which is like a driving licence. You have to pay to do the training and test.
Then you get inspected every year. No inspection, no licence, same as the MOT. You pay for the inspection so the inspectorate, like vosa, is self financing.
Anything found, licence suspended, equals no trading. Fine applied for the misdemeanour and when you have corrected it you are inspected again before you are able to get your licence back. Fees, fees and more fees. It is well past 1984 remember.
Am I glad I'm pensioner!

 

[davieh3350]

Is that like the wrong kind of leaves on a railway?