Where do we stand ?

delilah · May 29, 2020

10 years uninterrupted use of a field.
Nothing ever put in writing.
Landlord saying it is a tenancy at will, so 30 days notice.
google suggests to me that, as we have never signed out of the '54 act, we may have a periodic tenancy, ie 6 months notice ?
Or, pushing it, does the lack of anything ever being in writing give more than 6 months security...?
TIA

Frank-the-Wool · May 29, 2020

delilah said:
10 years uninterrupted use of a field.
Nothing ever put in writing.
Landlord saying it is a tenancy at will, so 30 days notice.
google suggests to me that, as we have never signed out of the '54 act, we may have a periodic tenancy, ie 6 months notice ?
Or, pushing it, does the lack of anything ever being in writing give more than 6 months security...?
TIA

Have you ever paid any rent?
Have you done any recorded improvements to the field?
Have you had uninterrupted use of the field and can anyone confirm this?

You refer to "Landlord" so presume at some point in time rent or an agreement was in place, if so and this was not renewed on an annual basis such as a grazing agreement of 11 months or 364 days then it is highly likely a tenancy has been unwittingly created and you are in a protected position.

chaffcutter · May 29, 2020

This ^^^^^^^^^

delilah · May 29, 2020

Frank-the-Wool said:
Have you ever paid any rent?
Have you done any recorded improvements to the field?
Have you had uninterrupted use of the field and can anyone confirm this?

You refer to "Landlord" so presume at some point in time rent or an agreement was in place, if so and this was not renewed on an annual basis such as a grazing agreement of 11 months or 364 days then it is highly likely a tenancy has been unwittingly created and you are in a protected position.

Rent: some years paid cash, but most years in kind by taking landlords horse manure away.
Improvements: No; it may be argued that we have done the opposite through planting soft fruit on a portion.
Uninterrupted: Yes, plenty of witnesses.

Has only ever been a verbal agreement.
To complicate it: We have been unofficial sub-tenants. The main tenant has been instructed by the landowner to shift us.

spin cycle · May 29, 2020

delilah said:
.
To complicate it: We have been unofficial sub-tenants. The main tenant has been instructed by the landowner to shift us.

reckon you're stuffed m8...sorry....wasn't his to let and letting it to you might endanger his tenancy....just my 'laymans' view :scratchhead:

delilah · May 29, 2020

spin cycle said:
reckon you're stuffed m8...sorry....wasn't his to let and letting it to you might endanger his tenancy....just my 'laymans' view

For sure, it wasn't his to let, it just seems to me that by saying we have a 'tenancy at will' they are attaching some form of legal status to our occupancy, and if so then maybe that occupancy is more secure than they suggest.

Frank-the-Wool · May 29, 2020

delilah said:
Rent: some years paid cash, but most years in kind by taking landlords horse manure away.
Improvements: No; it may be argued that we have done the opposite through planting soft fruit on a portion.
Uninterrupted: Yes, plenty of witnesses.

Has only ever been a verbal agreement.
To complicate it: We have been unofficial sub-tenants. The main tenant has been instructed by the landowner to shift us.

You are in a weak position, however if you are friends with the official tenant it may well depend on what the tenancy agreement states as if sub letting is permitted.

lim x · May 30, 2020

You've had a good run for a bit of cash, the owner wants you to move on and kindly given you 30 days to do so.
For all your sakes, do as he/she is asking and save everyone a whole amount of stress.

Humble Village Farmer · May 30, 2020

I reluctantly agree, although such short notice after 10 years seems unreasonable. Unfortunately some people are like that. I doubt you will gain anything from even discussing it with the landlord.

delilah · May 30, 2020

lim x said:
you to move on

that's the problem: to where ?
Not complaining - our business model is based on fly grazing, it is a bed we must lie on - but as it stands this field is fundamental to our enterprise.

lim x · May 30, 2020

delilah said:
that's the problem: to where ?
Not complaining - our business model is based on fly grazing, it is a bed we must lie on - but as it stands this field is fundamental to our enterprise.

Then you should have made it official to your enterprise ten years ago.
We had to tender officially for grazing/silage land let to enable us to keep livestock. If someone had unofficially offered some grazing I would, without question, move on if asked.

delilah · May 30, 2020

lim x said:
Then you should have made it official to your enterprise ten years ago.
We had to tender officially for grazing/silage land let to enable us to keep livestock. If someone had unofficially offered some grazing I would, without question, move on if asked.

As said, not complaining, just saying where we are at and exploring our options.
10 years ago we were new entrants. Things can become fundamental to your business without you realizing it.

britt · May 30, 2020

In your position digging your heels in will only give you a reputation for being difficult and make it harder to get somewhere else.
Thank the land owner and the tenant for what you've had, and ask for a bit more time to find somewhere else.
As Lim x says above.

britt · May 30, 2020

If they see that you are good to your word, and can be trusted, they may even offer you something else.

Bury the Trash · May 30, 2020

britt said:
In your position digging your heels in will only give you a reputation for being difficult and make it harder to get somewhere else.
Thank the land owner and the tenant for what you've had, and ask for a bit more time to find somewhere else.
As Lim x says above.

That's what I was thinking.

delilah · May 30, 2020

britt said:
digging your heels in will only give you a reputation

Agreed, we have just been discussing this issue of sending a bad impression to our other landlords (we have over a dozen).
Thanks, all, for the constructive comments. We have a plan.

glasshouse · Jun 9, 2020

Doff your cap and dont look them in the eye

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