The UK Farmers Union - is it time ?
- Thread starter Clive
- Start date
Yep we have replaced 730000 French farmers lobbying for a decent living for the NFU who don’t really want to rock the boat as it’s not the done thing.
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
The main three salaried NFU senior staff who wrote the NFU response to DEFRA (22,500 words and VERY well done) also had eleven other major projects all with timeframe deadlines. They listened and took help from many (including 3 Zoom meetings with me and many many email exchanges), they reviewed and forensically took apart the 2018 FAWC report that spawned a lot of the Consultation, brought in scientists and statisticians to build some contra evidence during an 8-week period with no notice since Eustice opened the flood gates on 8 December 2020 and during Covid, Brexit and Christmas
There is one Graduate trainee who helped the seniors compile it and I can tell you he earned his spurs and I really really hope he stays in our industry and the NFU can keep him
Even if the new Union got 50% of the NFU's members I think they'd need to levy more than double the NFU rate to secure good people as staffers to make things happen
Without becoming all Trump-esque with cries of "drain the swamp" the issue is the likes of Christine Tacon have no teeth and the BRC are seen by Government as heroes even more than Serco to pull their big issues out of the mire and deliver. We are a commodity supplier that in an Amazon type world could get swapped for another any day of the week (in their eyes)
Having said all of this by and large I reckon the British food consumer still rates us. It's how we turn this around to our strategic advantage that is difficult
Coming back to your point about the consultation, I've made my own response, I've assisted the NPA in their response, I've lobbied many in the industry to respond, I've made sure the RHA are aligned but frankly NONE of the above came even close to base 1 compared with the NFU response. I speak as I find and I commend their efforts. It took a lot of personal time and effort and the skill in response was palpable. I may have the specific sector knowledge and contacts and experience (and not a bad wordsmith) but I tell you now I couldn't have written such a good response, not even with a doubling of the deadline extension
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- Location
- Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
wanton dwarf
Member
I don't see why you are stating business in terms of competition between farming enterprises.
We ALL sell to market at the market price at the time we sell our produce. Why you would attempt to bring in politics on production methods/pricing between farms into that ?
That means ignoring or losing markets which is pointless and just gives market share to other countries.
We should be boosting each others incomes where possible and that ultimately means gaining a foothold into manufacture & retail.
glasshouse
Member
- Location
- lothians
Wales has two unions doesnt it
- Location
- Perthshire, Scotland
I’m really struggling to see how this would work.
As already said, huge difference of opinion between the sectors
How will a UK wide farmers union be able to put forward an unbiased, fair argument/lobby. The needs of a large scale arable operation in East anglia, salad/veg growers in Kent, dairy guys in Cheshire, malting barley grower in Moray, hill sheep and beef in Argyll and a crofter on Lewis are all so different.
If the thoughts of the NFU members being misrepresented/conflicted interests and not being listened to then there is NO WAY a UK wide union will work
As already said, huge difference of opinion between the sectors
How will a UK wide farmers union be able to put forward an unbiased, fair argument/lobby. The needs of a large scale arable operation in East anglia, salad/veg growers in Kent, dairy guys in Cheshire, malting barley grower in Moray, hill sheep and beef in Argyll and a crofter on Lewis are all so different.
If the thoughts of the NFU members being misrepresented/conflicted interests and not being listened to then there is NO WAY a UK wide union will work
kiwi pom
Member
- Location
- canterbury NZ
So no landlords, that would rule out a lot of semi retired farmers who rent some/all of their ground out.
What about the likes of Dyson?
Share farmers in? perhaps it could be open to farm managers and other Ag workers, they need a voice in farming too and do a lot of the work?
Elected officials only getting expenses probably rules out small to mid size farmers who are already flat out all day. Perhaps older, semi retired or combinable cropping farmers would have the time and not need the money but that makes it sound like an old boys club already.
wanton dwarf
Member
As regards representation isn't the first step the opportunity to give representation on an issue ? People within the Union would make representation or not as the case may be.
But that would have to come through dialogue - which means a social platform to gain opinions and proponents.
For me personally the politics is a side issue to business and money. Politics and Power will come with enough business.
- Location
- East Sussex
Farmers UK Union and the 'merch' sales would be astronomical!
Keeping with the political theme.
I would perhaps say we are Liberals seeing your views in the past.
Will my ideas ever have a magority even with a OMOV. Vegans are customers, Food comes from Tesco,s, educating children with fluffy lambs is madness. Glyphophate is not vital, and was saved by German politics not the NFU.
Having another NFU will still leave my views unreprsented just like every Liberal voter for the last 100 odd years.
Johnnyboxer
Member
- Location
- Yorkshire
Very well said
Vegan/vegetarian and alternative eating could be the making of uk agriculture
Yet scorn is poured on it - on these very pages
Farmers have land and with a bit of forethought could grow produce to feed these vegans & vegetarians
I don’t quite get why everyone feels so threatened, when you have the ‘where with all’ to satisfy the vegetarian market
glasshouse
Member
- Location
- lothians
Dont split hairs
TFA was similar wasnt it ?
glasshouse
Member
- Location
- lothians
I thought wales had two unions?
I believe we should let the NFU do what they do best - the horrible boring ugly stuff - they do it very well. We should concentrate on getting them to relinquish the bits they are clueless on - promoting UK Ag, countering false news, and marketing us and our produce. I don't know but I would guess that most of their marketing, PR, and advertising budget is aimed at us - their members. Why preach to the converted? I get really pee'd off when I receive their glossy mags and discount books - 10% off a 4x4 - it's a waste of time and money. that discount is available to those who ask.
If they say gave up a couple of million, we got some more from AHDB, CLA and others, set up a really sharp, young, fast moving farmer lead team that where beholden to nobody other than a small farmer populated directorate... now we're farming!
If they say gave up a couple of million, we got some more from AHDB, CLA and others, set up a really sharp, young, fast moving farmer lead team that where beholden to nobody other than a small farmer populated directorate... now we're farming!
- Location
- South Molton
Given you can't get it straight away probably none!
Is that not just like the farming forum that wouldn't need to have on screen advertising?
Danllan
Member
- Location
- Sir Gar / Carms
So far, I don't think anyone has claimed the NFU to be without fault; and there certainly isn't anyone honest who would try and claim that the NFU has a good record of reacting positively to criticism, still less changing as a result of it. Yet an awful lot of people on here are damning just the suggestion of an alternative to the NFU; some because of blind loyalty to it, some because of apathy, and perhaps some for other reasons too. 'Unions', 'Confederations', trade-bodies etc. are like businesses, only the most viable will survive; the NFU has been the only real one on offer, so far.
The TFA is an excellent organisation, and I'd happily see the word 'Tenant' changed to 'The', and then join. Yet, if a credible new organisation comes into being - and I'd give it a go - it would have to out-compete the NFU, or it would fail, it's as simple as that. If it were to out-do the NFU then clearly the NFU's time would be up. This is all very obvious, yet some who would otherwise support free-market ideals seem against this sort of competition for the NFU.
It has been argued that 'united we stand...', and that's true enough. But although none can claim that farmers are united now, it would be a falsity to claim that we can't be so on at least a majority of matters. And I can see no reason for the excluding of organic farmers or those catering for vegans, by the 'Union' or by themselves; this regardless that I think veganism an irrational and probably dangerous fashion - people will still farm for vegans and if they are farming they are going to share a majority of concerns with the rest of us.
A new farming body, staffed by a permanent secretariat but run by an elected executive would, by definition, be political - but not party-political. Membership would certainly tend to the partisan, every organisation finds this, but the value of OMOV is that it would negate the actual or perceived 'power' of some who see the NFU as a convenient way to seek and / or exert influence. I think it would make sense for the elections to be periodic rather than annual, to allow for an elected agenda to be seen through, as far as it might be.
My only concern, and this would be the same for any embryonic organisation, is that its competitors would try to stamp it out at the start; I could see the NFU 'promising' any amount of things...
The TFA is an excellent organisation, and I'd happily see the word 'Tenant' changed to 'The', and then join. Yet, if a credible new organisation comes into being - and I'd give it a go - it would have to out-compete the NFU, or it would fail, it's as simple as that. If it were to out-do the NFU then clearly the NFU's time would be up. This is all very obvious, yet some who would otherwise support free-market ideals seem against this sort of competition for the NFU.
It has been argued that 'united we stand...', and that's true enough. But although none can claim that farmers are united now, it would be a falsity to claim that we can't be so on at least a majority of matters. And I can see no reason for the excluding of organic farmers or those catering for vegans, by the 'Union' or by themselves; this regardless that I think veganism an irrational and probably dangerous fashion - people will still farm for vegans and if they are farming they are going to share a majority of concerns with the rest of us.
A new farming body, staffed by a permanent secretariat but run by an elected executive would, by definition, be political - but not party-political. Membership would certainly tend to the partisan, every organisation finds this, but the value of OMOV is that it would negate the actual or perceived 'power' of some who see the NFU as a convenient way to seek and / or exert influence. I think it would make sense for the elections to be periodic rather than annual, to allow for an elected agenda to be seen through, as far as it might be.
My only concern, and this would be the same for any embryonic organisation, is that its competitors would try to stamp it out at the start; I could see the NFU 'promising' any amount of things...
Not so! @JP1 ignored your illegal / indecent rules and 'moderated' entirely subjectively at times; and you lot once deleted posts of mine and locked / blocked an entire thread - and my post mentioned nothing at all illegal and nothing more 'indecent' than your bottom - but I digress...
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Happy I can just say at the end of your piece you're talking out of your's and I'm glad I can just not have to deal with it any more