No probs, will let you know when I'll be going. Might be waiting for a rain by then...
Is there no money in small direct drills?
- Thread starter Oldmacdonald
- Start date
clbarclay
Member
- Location
- Worcestershire
I meant stick a hopper on top of an old cultivator.
Well although the strip tilled fields locally looked fantastic at drilling time there now been redrilled as it seems nowt much is growing!
The Disc drilled stuff locally was redrilled last week.
The tine drilled stuff looks to be struggling!
Our cultivator and combi drilled stuff on the same soil type looks well
Needs a bit more thought and research doing before we move away from what we’re doing I think.
SilliamWhale
Member
No till is a learning curve thats for sure.
When you get it right the rewards are substantial.
I need to do the learning before I start as don’t have the time or money to get it wrong!
Current kit we have won’t last forever though so it’s a head scratcher. And a direct drill without some sort of cultivation in front of it I’m rapidly going off the idea looking at local results.
only if you make one, i designed this frame to take a standard accord/kverneland hopper (A frame attachment), and weaving saber tine legs.
legs at £145 each packer around 2.5K acts as depth control and consolidation.
frame was laser cut from CAD drawings. mostly 15mm steel. I have picked it up empty with a MF3065 and pulled it at 75mm depth no problem, never loaded it with seed on that tractor my guess it would be struggling. but its lighter fully filled than a 3m combi is.
I had to go all new and have it made yes zero my labour other than drawing it up, because I wanted to get a grant, but even with the new hopper and land wheel lights etc, running to £8k, it cost all in about £15K so it could be done for under £8k with a second hand hopper.
it uses a pto driven hydraulic fan drive with oil tank and cooler, again you could chop off another £1k if you fitted a pto shaft drive, so even with steel prices going up I imagine it could be done well under £8k. if you use a second hand hopper and land wheel. nearly any accord hopper would fit.
changes I would make? I would make the packer arms longer, as I now have brackets on the back row of tines to run chains to help cover the seed,( the jury is out as to if these help or not) before the packer. the sim-tek drill uses chains quite well to cover the drill slot. . .
brackets again laser cut to fit the saber tine legs bolt holes, extending the packer arms would give me a bit more space to avoid the chains catching the packer.
tip for anyone making these, the box section is 80mmx80mm and 8mm thick this leave the external corners of the box section rounded and the rubber can try to creep, you can add steel at mounting points to square the frame, or as I am trying add nylon dowels to block the rubber from creeping. I think i used 15mm diameter hard nylon, and cut a little of the rubber back to make room for them, 4 pieces for each leg (one for every corner of the box section) personally a bit of weld on the frame before you get it painted or galv dipped is simpler.
i find spring direct drilling like any drilling is moisture dependant, winter results are more reliable and consistent. spring drilling is tricky to time right too wet and the slot doesn't close, to dry and unless you get down to moisture your in trouble and spring rain seems to be all or nothing at the moment,
I have heavy clay and it direct drill in winter fine, slugs can be an issue but can be planned for.
I got a contractor to direct disc drill a field last spring, nearly to wet going in then it was far too dry later, never a good start.
maybe I was a few days to early but the hot dry weather we go soon removed any moisture it had in the following weeks.
like always, some years suit one type of drilling more than another. for me over winter ploughed heavy land was the only cheap way to get seedbeds on my strong land that I can just one pass with a combination drill, even then if we had a mild winter that was touch and go. direct drilling 2 years in a row has allowed for good winter establishment on my heavy land. with tined direct drills, one year mine one year via a contractor.
How are you getting on with the drill. Any photos of the crops?
Sorry no pics, the drill went great, I did get a bad start this year on my heavy clay land, delayed by my spray contractor having a break down, so the last 3 fields of my heavy land were after substantial rain, which turn it to the constancy of plasticine which didn’t help with slot closing, earlier drill direct into heavy land stubbles, had very good germination and emergence, I did take my agronomists advise and add slug pellets to the seed hopper so pellets were in the slot. But it seems a low slug year for me that all I used this year and only on the heavy land.
the last 3 fields after the quite heavy rain were drilled well but hit by heavy rain just after drilling, busting some grain in open slots that sat with water, that combined with we think the pre em on the not fully closed slots caused some area damage, this was compounded with not being able to roll it in which would have helped. We could tell the better areas in the field, it was up nicely, but where the tractor wheels had run its came badly, non of which helps with the poor Friability of our heavy land when its paddled and wet.
on my better land 100% establishment no need for rolling the packer does the job nicely, and it looks great, I can also tell which of my heavy clay land has been direct drilled for the third year and land that was grassland.
what revisions would I make, maybe set the packer further back to give the soil more time to settle before the packer rolls it in I did add chain brackets but ultimately long stubbles from very tall wheat, made the chains more of a pain than benefit, stubbles were very different this year they had been dead so long from the early harvest they had lost all there roots so they tended to clump more than I had seen before.
I would maybe go to 4 rows for 20 legs if I built one again as that works out as 5 legs per row.
Even at 500mm spacing if a leg was kicking up stubble in the front or second row now and then it would throw back a lump of stubble that 500mm spacing could not cope with.
I did consider discs as another route. Adding a scalloped disc in front of every leg to balance the legs attempts to push backwards because it would push a disc further in as it did so they would create a bit of tilth chop straw and trash and balance the legs desire to push backwards in heavy going. It would be a good solution but I don’t think it’s needed.
I made a modification to the 4 rubbers each leg uses I added a nylon dowel to act the the pressure side of the rubber to stop a bit of rubber creep around the frame I was seeing my box section steel in the first season, it was not as square as what weaving use, if you read the weaving thread I am not alone with problems with the rubbers even weavings own machines are using revised rubbers, I think they have gone to round ones now.
I did have one leg this year start to push back too far, I found the rubber had given and it had squeezed like a tube of toothpaste so reducing its density between the frame and the legs bracket, I am undecided what to do, my gut says I could drill out a bolt hole through the rubber and make squeeze packers to block that or I could modify the legs brackets to restrain the rubbers inside the brackets by welding on some steel. That’s my trial and error for this winter.
on balance I think it’s fine as it is, and the changes I am making is more down to my very heavy land rather than real problems, legs are nearly always are fine unless I get a blockage with straw and don’t notice the straw drags in soil and the combined weight of a clump 300-500 mm tall of straw soil mix being dragged by the leg.
So on balance it’s likely fixed by bigger spacing, so going to 4 rows would likely cure most of the problems.
If I remember to take some pictures I will post them up.
Hi. Thankyou for such an in-depth and informative reply.
I really like the roller on yours as on my ground after the first rain you darent take the roller out. Slot closing seems to be the biggest worry i thought you roller would have been the answer especially over tines.
I’d rather the 3 rows to keep overall length/weight down but the 4 look like an advantage too.
Looks better than any of the big brands. It’s a really credit to you
The roller is good and if the land is not to wet it makes a good job, pushing the roller back say 300mm would provide the space for options as well as give the soil more time to settle before it’s rolled down.
I have very strong red clay land in places which has 3 states and 90% of the time it’s to wet or to dry, it’s only in a perfect state to drill into for what seems 3-4 days in Autumn.
Options for the gap.
chains, the T Sem drill use heavy chains to help close the slot and these could be added pre the roller, on the T sem drill the packer they use doesn’t press the slot on there 3 meter the back tine are nearly inside the packer. The chain does all the work.
regular closing tines of which there are many types often double legged and are used on the weaving saber tine drill to again try to close the slot. A row could be added it’s actually the back row of tines that suffer the worst from not closing and those following the tractor wheels so I doubt a full row is needed.
so as you said 3 rows is fine.
if you are starting out with direct drilling, and your soil has little or no organic matter at the surface then light discing pre drilling to get a nice chit of weeds and mix the stubble a little bit is all you need,I direct drilled about half my stubbles and disced the rest but my goal is to go all direct I did use sewage sludge this year so that all had to be disced up the drill runs well in either stubbles or disced ground.
I will say as for its weight it’s far lighter than my combination drill even filled with 600kg of seed it’s only similar to my empty combination drill. The close fitting of the hopper to the tractor helps a lot.
the T sem drill
It has a row of discs at the front which may or may not have helped with straw this year, it’s aim is to chop trash in-line with the tines so I expect it does, so anyone looking at building there own drill may consider that design.
I will say my spring wheat stubbles caused no problems the root system of the stubble was still in place and it allowed for the drilling I had seen last season, which was no problems apart from the odd lump of straw left by the baler man.
If your going to chop straw then discing is more often still used to mix it in, I haven’t tried drilling into a chopped stubble but I expect it would work fine, if the weaving saber tine drill can do it so can one made with the same legs.
Good luck.
- Location
- Scotland
Is anyone both direct drilling and ploughing/combi drilling in the same system? I mainly grow grass then take 3 years of cereals before grass again. In theory I'd like to plough the grass down then combi drill it before DDing the following 2 crops. Also will be applying plenty of FYM. Would a DD deal with that? Apologies for this post being a bit off topic but seem to have experienced persons here. TIA
Here's your starting point! Less than half the budget, 2t in the hopper, tine bar on the front, new hoss will play with it. And its local.A 3m Moore disc drill would likely direct drill the grass land, your spraying off to put crops in and the crops, if it has compaction subsoil it prior to drilling it.
I had a mate use one to direct drill all my sprayed of grass land it went in fine and it is very heavy land, I wanted to avoid ripping it up and risk organic matter loss from ploughing. Retain the tilth the top had built up from being in grass. Just make a good job of spraying it off, some time grass needs the double tap to get rid of the second flush from seed sat around.
A gd? Our 4m gd doesn’t take any pulling but there’s more drag on a tine drill
ollie989898
Member
The belief is that over time ground that has been direct drilled only will become more drought resistant and also better to travel on. I can see the logic.
It will take time to see measurable improvement in soils but it can be done.
Interesting, I’ve just read through the thread, @Dave645 looks a cracking drill, I’d like to try some more direct drilling, did a small trial with CO4 with Dutch coulters and was fairly happy with it. No longer have much equipment as contractor does all the work but having seen the price of a 3m sabre tine £39500….I quite fancy building one. perhaps I could have a look at yours sometime? I only have JD6320 100hp at the moment though may not be man enough to pick up?
- Location
- Cornwall
I have dd’d into a five year grass ley this year..
it’s the best looking winter barley I have on the farm…
After spraying the grass off, it had a coating of fym, then left for a couple of weeks before drilling direct on top..
no issues with the fym but you need it to be quite well rotted so that it spreads evenly out of the spreader.. big strawy lumps wouldn’t be so good !
Yes time will tell.
but until I see a system locally that works consistently and gives reliable yields I will stay on the fence.
And I’ve just bought a fresh plough.
- Location
- North Norfolk
We bit the bullet on this and got a windrow composter. Here it is doing the final run on what was some really strawy fym with the odd slab of bale in it. Ready to be spread on the cover crop behind in Spring before strip tilling maize.
