The cartel are coming for you.

Kidds · Mar 28, 2023

Goweresque said:
Thats nonsense. If the Supermarket cartel (as you term it) drives thousands of small producers out of business then the supermarkets then face dealing with a small number of producers, who will have much more market power. The weakness of farming is precisely that there's tens of thousands of us. And we don't (or indeed can't by law) stand together. No one farmer can affect the supply into the market by refusing to accept what the processors offer. But when one producer controls (say) 20% of the market then if they say 'We're not accepting your price and are withholding our produce' then that does affect the market price. And gives them leverage, that we all lack as small producers.

The last thing the supermarkets want is a few producers with more pricing power. And driving all the small producers out of the market will create exactly that.

For once I have to disagree with you. Those small number of very big producers have no alternative market, they either have to comply or go out of business. UK supermarkets are quite willing to pay more to foreign suppliers than bow to UK producers over price as they have recently with eggs and salad.
I don't think the problems Delilah is referring to is something that is coming, it is already here and has been for some time. It will be interesting to see where things end up but there is going to be a food shortage in this country if there isn't already. A long cold spring and we are buggered.

digger64 · Mar 28, 2023

Goweresque said:
Do you not understand economics? If there are thousands of producers of X, and few buyers, then the buyers can aways dictate pricing, because if any one producer refuses to play ball his neighbour probably will. We all know a farmer's worst enemy is his neighbour not the supermarkets.

Whereas if there's half a dozen producers of X and half a dozen buyers, then the playing field is levelled. Where are supermarkets going to get milk if one producer controlling a third of the milk production says 'Pay more or get no milk'?

doesnt that work both ways ? - 1000 cows lots of borrowing and no milk contract wouldnt be my idea of a nice place to be in a weak market place

L P · Mar 28, 2023

Goweresque said:
Except in @delilah world everyone will be doing the same thing (lots of small producers) so they'll all be cutting each others throats just to try and make a living. Sound familiar?

People are too idle to worry about it a lot of the time, why do motorway services charge a fortune for fuel? Because most lazy gits would sooner pay it en route than take a 5 minute detour in their day to save money

DrWazzock · Mar 28, 2023

Goweresque said:
Except in @delilah world everyone will be doing the same thing (lots of small producers) so they'll all be cutting each others throats just to try and make a living. Sound familiar?

Yes that did a could happen. But what’s needed is solidarity. Quite how you achieve I don’t know.

Hilly · Mar 28, 2023

Kidds said:
For once I have to disagree with you. Those small number of very big producers have no alternative market, they either have to comply or go out of business. UK supermarkets are quite willing to pay more to foreign suppliers than bow to UK producers over price as they have recently with eggs and salad.
I don't think the problems Delilah is referring to is something that is coming, it is already here and has been for some time. It will be interesting to see where things end up but there is going to be a food shortage in this country if there isn't already. A long cold spring and we are buggered.

People keep saying this about food but i think they have said it that oftern they believe it but it never really happens ..

wanton dwarf · Mar 28, 2023

devonbeef said:
Join the BFU and build it in to something that can fight for us.It is the only way.

Unless you have market share it won't be anywhere near enough.

If you want to stop what is happening you need to pull the rug from under their feet - they are already moving your carpets and UK farmers are still expecting someone else to get them out of the mess they are in.

Kidds · Mar 28, 2023

Hilly said:
People keep saying this about food but i think they have said it that oftern they believe it but it never really happens ..

Been saying it for decades but I think it is actually here now. Don't know if you go into supermarkets but I see a lot of empty shelf space in there, not something you would see 2-3 years ago. Doesn't seem that long ago they ripped out all the aisles in our local supermarket so they could make them narrower and fit more shelf space.
Supermarkets are where most folk get their shopping and they are used to having what they want when they want, quite often the missus comes back without something because there weren't any there this time.

L P · Mar 28, 2023

Goweresque said:
Here's some other figures:

United Kingdom: A pig industry on the edge - Pig Progress

United Kingdom: A pig industry on the edge

www.pigprogress.net

The largest 10 producers of pigs in the UK produce 35% of the total, so on average 3.5% each. That still leaves 65% by far smaller producers, there's 1000 producing 90% of production. Thats not by any stretch of the imagination a level playing field with a dozen supermarket chains.

You just said that farmers should be aware if they don't want to close the farm gate! How is that not talking about maintaining producer levels?

Do you think that producer levels should stay the same, rise or fall from current levels then?

I like pork... but why are you so hung up on pig examples, on the same diet pigs and humans have the same fcr? Pigs are only efficient in the food chain by eating byproducts we cannot eat. Feed grain in pig production is not efficient. Eating grass as a human gives us a far poorer fcr than sheep or cattle, so they are efficient convertors of food for us. Poultry too is efficient, salmon very efficient, pigs are a really bad example to choose for this thread

Tarw Coch · Mar 29, 2023

So the Cartel are coming for us

Nothing new there is there?

Anyone remember Tony Blair saying “ I know the supermarkets have got you guys in a headlock “?
That must be 20 years or more ago

Courier · Mar 29, 2023

Tarw Coch said:
So the Cartel are coming for us

Nothing new there is there?

Anyone remember Tony Blair saying “ I know the supermarkets have got you guys in a headlock “?
That must be 20 years or more ago

Tony Blair’s missus was the solicitor representing a group of dairy farmer / processors / retailers in Yorkshire / Lancashire in the early ‘90’s - instigated by Hector Buckley and Hilldale Dairies when the MMB was in its dotage…Cherie Booth (Blair) had Tony’s ear on the pillow at night ….

ollie989898 · Mar 29, 2023

I'm sort of disappointed after reading the title of this thread, thought it was about drug cartels and going all Tom Clancy:

delilah · Mar 29, 2023

Goweresque said:
given the disparity between numbers of supermarkets and numbers of farmers, they could drive a LOT of farmers out of business and still have market power over them

Then we are in agreement. Unless we reverse the consolidation taking place in the food chain, most of the autonomous farming businesses on here have no future. To see what that looks like, try visiting the 'fruit and veg' section on here. There will be no need for a farming forum.

delilah · Mar 29, 2023

DrWazzock said:
They import it, and that one big producer suddenly has no market at all. I’ve seen this with carrot growers. There are very few left but they are all held over a barrel to imports. No one dare upset a buyer as it would finish them. This might sound counterintuitive in the conventional economic sense but it’s the actuality.

Thank you. @Goweresque has offered nothing to back up his assertion that the cartel only want the consolidation below them in the food chain to reach a certain point.

delilah · Mar 29, 2023

DrWazzock said:
I can see I’ll have to take matters into my own hands. Reinstate the roadside stall.

AKA, niche. It doesn't work, for one reason: Critical mass. There are folks on here who think that they can go it alone by marketing their own meat. They can't. Because they will soon have no abattoir doing home kill within an economically viable distance.

There's a big dairy farm here. The proprietors are constantly having to do a milking themselves because they are permanently advertizing for staff. This is what happens when an industry goes down a dead end road of consolidation. It is fine so long as the little people falling by the wayside or having several kids have sons and daughters wanting to get a job in the sector. Then, one day, those little people are no longer there and the supply of labour dries up.

delilah · Mar 29, 2023

devonbeef said:
Join the BFU and build it in to something that can fight for us.It is the only way.

The folks that gave that a likey then, what do they want the BFU to say on this issue ? Specifically.

devonbeef · Mar 29, 2023

wanton dwarf said:
Unless you have market share it won't be anywhere near enough.

If you want to stop what is happening you need to pull the rug from under their feet - they are already moving your carpets and UK farmers are still expecting someone else to get them out of the mess they are in.
[/QUOT

can go down fighting,least you tried

delilah · Mar 29, 2023

Goweresque said:
And come back to me when your sustain lot have a campaign against Net Zero, because thats what the supermarkets are using to drive all this 'emissions' malarkey.

No comment on the Sustain document I shared then. You asked for it. Thoughts ?

As you know full well, net zero vis a vis farming is being driven by the NFU.

delilah · Mar 29, 2023

egbert said:
They're busy sticking the knife in upland livestock farmers, and anyone farming land the 'trees'R'luverly' w4nkers want.

If you've nothing to say on the issues raised in the OP, why don't you just f@ck off back to your 'England is mine and it owes me a living' thread.

soapsud · Mar 29, 2023

delilah said:
The folks that gave that a likey then, what do they want the BFU to say on this issue ? Specifically.

I'm not BFU because they've said they can't so easily support shepherds (which I am) but they are serious and positive. All they specifically need to do is what the NFU used to do - but have forgotten - plus mediate and liase with regional farmer reps to get proper gate prices with the cartel. Easy.

soapsud · Mar 29, 2023

delilah said:
If you've nothing to say on the issues raised in the OP, why don't you just f@ck off back to your 'England is mine and it owes me a living' thread.

Did someone mess the bed this AM?

The cartel are coming for you.

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