The cartel are coming for you.

[soapsud]

Yes that did a could happen. But what’s needed is solidarity. Quite how you achieve I don’t know.

I see what you did there!
@delilah has corporate consoliditation and you have workers solidarity. Thanks Doc.

 

[Tarw Coch]

If you've nothing to say on the issues raised in the OP, why don't you just f@ck off back to your 'England is mine and it owes me a living' thread.

Wow, you really do know ho to win peoples opinions

 

[Dave645]

Thats nonsense. If the Supermarket cartel (as you term it) drives thousands of small producers out of business then the supermarkets then face dealing with a small number of producers, who will have much more market power. The weakness of farming is precisely that there's tens of thousands of us. And we don't (or indeed can't by law) stand together. No one farmer can affect the supply into the market by refusing to accept what the processors offer. But when one producer controls (say) 20% of the market then if they say 'We're not accepting your price and are withholding our produce' then that does affect the market price. And gives them leverage, that we all lack as small producers.

The last thing the supermarkets want is a few producers with more pricing power. And driving all the small producers out of the market will create exactly that.

While I don’t disagree, you have to look at it from the retailers point of view, dealing with lots of relatively small farmers that only produce a % of the produce they stock is not efficient, sure it gives them power or you would think it would. If we had say 10,000 farmers suppling carrots that all had 1 ha then you would think that retail has all the power, but actually not that much as 1 ha of carrots is no big deal to turn into a loss for one year by refusing to take the pay cut, if they all held firm then they have as much power as anyone can with supermarkets, but the same cannot be said with a farm with 1000 ha of carrots they cannot afford to have the whole contract dropped even one year especially a glut year where the open market price has dropped, (often the year retail put pressure on prices)


Having a few large supplier by the short and Curlies that they will make or break on a whim of there contracts is no less of a power, size doesn’t protect you, big suppliers like Heinz got product taken off the shelves by supermarkets for not agreeing to there demands, size offer very little protection, so they can thin us down because it actually doesn’t matter.
you have to remember the bigger you are the more reliant you are on your contracts, if you have grown 2000ha of carrots for retail and they drop your contract or come back with a price drop you cannot agree to then what do you do, your the one holding a perishable product that has invested a great deal of your money into not them.
Power comes from your position, a farmer sitting on perishable good with a limited best before shelf life are never going to be in a power position. It doesn’t matter how big they are, unless they are the only farm in the world that produces that product, and they will not let things get like that, neither will the government.

so in reality a large number of farmers producing a small amount that can afford to take a hit if they stand up to retail on price than a few big growers with lots of skin in the game, I will say you are right the fact that that large number of farmers doesn’t act as one voice is why they have no power, but risk and size are a funny bed fellow getting bigger doesn’t always reduce risk, because the gambles you take just get bigger.

if sustainable is a goal, if resilience is a goal, if environmental impact reduction is a goal, then small farming should get a big yes because lots of small farmers doing the right thing can deliver far more of the above.
But retail want large suppliers because it reduces complexity in the supply chain they like dealing with the farm directly because they pay the least amount of money for the product, if we forced retail to deal with CO OP’s that set prices for all the little growers suppling the CO OP they would dislike that as they lose the ability to put pressure on individual growers.

so the game we should play is forming CO OP’s us farmers take contracts to grow product from the CO OP at pre set prices, which can be take or leave it so each year, think of it as an extension of British sugar, when quota is dished out usually to existing growers that is tradable and has fixed prices every year.
If demand increases then extra quota is available the following year.
if government stepped in a forced a non profit lean CO OP system into place it could stabilise prices and supply and demands the uk has move farmers into new Opportunities and crops on small scales with the help of CO OP’s take France they run co ops that come and harvest crops with big specialist machines this allows multiple small farmers to grow small areas of specialist crops and not own expensive harvesting equipment the product is then deliver into the CO OP stores for processing, sure they may not always get the best price but it’s less risk and a Guaranteed price and it can be a seasons average price with adjustments.

 

[delilah]

Wow, you really do know ho to win peoples opinions

He called me a stroker. Merely returning the compliment.

 

[delilah]

So the Cartel are coming for us

Nothing new there is there?

The Grocer magazine has described this co-ordinated assault on farming as "unprecedented". The Grocer monitors every single development in the food chain, if they are using words like unprecedented then folks need to take notice.

 

[Y Fan Wen]

Answer the question. What examples can you provide of the cartel wanting to maintain a diverse food system ?

Would that be the destruction of Milk Marque?

 

[delilah]

Would that be the destruction of Milk Marque?

Possibly, though probably not. The roots of that one go back to the Thatcherite inspired abolition of the MMB.

In the mid-80s the cartel was barely out of nappies; Tesco and Sainsbury 11% each, Asda and the co-op 7% each, that was it so far as market share went, and i'm not sure if the co-op would have had the nous or inclination to do much 'free market' lobbying.

I would put the destruction of Milk Marque down to political ideology rather than the cartel at play.

 

[TelesnaAg]

The cartel is leftist environmentalist uneducated consumer climate warriors.

I dont have any corporates telling me what to do.

Ant...

 

[Dave645]

The cartel is leftist environmentalist uneducated consumer climate warriors.

I dont have any corporates telling me what to do.

Ant...

It’s nice to think that’s true, that no corporation is telling you what to do. In reality, unless your a hermit, living in a cave they do.

 

[Muck Spreader]

The cartel is leftist environmentalist uneducated consumer climate warriors.

I dont have any corporates telling me what to do.

Ant...

Exactly what the corporates want you to think.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Possibly, though probably not. The roots of that one go back to the Thatcherite inspired abolition of the MMB.

In the mid-80s the cartel was barely out of nappies; Tesco and Sainsbury 11% each, Asda and the co-op 7% each, that was it so far as market share went, and i'm not sure if the co-op would have had the nous or inclination to do much 'free market' lobbying.

I would put the destruction of Milk Marque down to political ideology rather than the cartel at play.

I wouldn't say it was Thatcherite inspired as much as it was actually DTF inspired and pushed through by the Thatcher government.

 

[tractorsandcows]

doesnt that work both ways ? - 1000 cows lots of borrowing and no milk contract wouldnt be my idea of a nice place to be in a weak market place

Exactly same as mentioned above with veg growers Have to accept the price in order to meet your repayments Can't afford to go out of business as you probably owe more than your worth

 

[TelesnaAg]

Exactly what the corporates want you to think.

Ok name one thing a corporate tells me to do in Australia.

Cheers,

Ant...

 

[TelesnaAg]

It’s nice to think that’s true, that no corporation is telling you what to do. In reality, unless your a hermit, living in a cave they do.

Please name one, related to farming.

Ant...

 

[Dave645]

Please name one, related to farming.

Ant...

for me in the uk, spray chemical companies, seed companies and their royalties, fertilizer corporations. who you get your fuel from, they tell you what price you have to pay for fuel. most of the retail sector that setup contracts with farmers, while they may not directly talk to you the price they set will effect you. wool if you have sheep, do you set the price if you sell it or is someone telling you what they will give you?
your chose of farm truck, if you watch adverts for farming, or go to a trade show, a lot of influence is indirect. that's just like they like it, very low key.
the people buying your produce, nearly always there is a big company setting or effecting prices.
corporations in the uk can set new rules or requirements that make it into legislation, how much of your legislation effecting how you run your business has come from big companies lobbying your government. we have Red tractor which is basically retails lapdog they think of a new requirement make it mandatory and its added to red tractor, the latest in the uk, a big retailer is pressing for new laws around the use of urea nitrogen, they are trying to ban its application after a set date, unless it has an additive that slows its breakdown and escape into the air. this is corporations looking to be green and forcing change on farmers.
while i could go on, that would be far more than just one.

 

[TelesnaAg]

for me in the uk, spray chemical companies, seed companies and their royalties, fertilizer corporations. who you get your fuel from, they tell you what price you have to pay for fuel. most of the retail sector that setup contracts with farmers, while they may not directly talk to you the price they set will effect you. wool if you have sheep, do you set the price if you sell it or is someone telling you what they will give you?
your chose of farm truck, if you watch adverts for farming, or go to a trade show, a lot of influence is indirect. that's just like they like it, very low key.
the people buying your produce, nearly always there is a big company setting or effecting prices.
corporations in the uk can set new rules or requirements that make it into legislation, how much of your legislation effecting how you run your business has come from big companies lobbying your government. we have Red tractor which is basically retails lapdog they think of a new requirement make it mandatory and its added to red tractor, the latest in the uk, a big retailer is pressing for new laws around the use of urea nitrogen, they are trying to ban its application after a set date, unless it has an additive that slows its breakdown and escape into the air. this is corporations looking to be green and forcing change on farmers.
while i could go on, that would be far more than just one.

This is called retail selling. Not corporate control.

If a corporate sets specifications on whya it wants to purchase it is within ita rights to do so.
They are also in there right to set a price, and so are you.
If i sell my beef at a farmers market on a Sunday, i set the price, i dont go there with blank priced products.
If i sell at auction then its an auction and i have to accept the price of the day...thats the whole idea, i chose to go no one forces me.
If you are on to large of a scale that all your produce is sold on taking the best price and not setting the price, thats your fault for the bisiness strategy, no one elses.

Dalliah is trying the age old tactic of trying to shift the focus of the left leaning environmentalist who favour socialism and contril.bhy the state.

For the uk it seems the environment socialist are by far setting more demands than corporates.

We hvae 2 major supermarkets in Australia so competition is limited at times but i choose to grow beef, so i accept that, its the best labour return per hour, i can work fullime and run farm.

Maybe looking at inputs and chemical by doing things better through soil health rather than feel like your under the thumb of corporates.

Tbh, its business and every business can face this, its the same in mining, how you manage it determines your outcomes.

Ant...

 

[TelesnaAg]

Please someone from the uk list a demand forced upon you by a corporate that changes the way you farm that you cannot freely avoid.

The cartel control you speak off??

Ant...

 

[melted welly]

Please someone from the uk list a demand forced upon you by a corporate that changes the way you farm that you cannot freely avoid.

The cartel control you speak off??

Ant...

Tesco require suppliers now have to join and be audited by LEAF.

SEDEX membership.

 

[Hilly]

Tesco require suppliers now have to join and be audited by LEAF.

SEDEX membership.

You could tell tesco to bugga off ?

 

[TelesnaAg]

Tesco require suppliers now have to join and be audited by LEAF.

SEDEX membership.

Stop supplying to Tesco, fixed.

Next.

Ant...