Well done AHDB

Tamar

Tamar

Member
Well done to @AHDB for engaging with us all on here.

They have answered some fairly tough and agressive questions on why we should pay levies and the need for an increase in the levies.

They have certainly gone up in my opinion, as I was beginning to think we would be no worse off if we lost AHDB.


If the NFU and RT are reading, perhaps you need to stick your head above the parapet and engage with the farmers you say you represent.........It actually might help your cause !
 
Clive

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Tamar said:
Well done to @AHDB for engaging with us all on here.

They have answered some fairly tough and agressive questions on why we should pay levies and the need for an increase in the levies.

They have certainly gone up in my opinion, as I was beginning to think we would be no worse off if we lost AHDB.


If the NFU and RT are reading, perhaps you need to stick your head above the parapet and engage with the farmers you say you represent.........It actually might help your cause !
Click to expand...

^^. this @Levy Believer maybe feed this back ?

It's not easy to deal with the difficult questions and complaints but ignoring them doesn't make them go away !

I had an interesting chat with a EA communications officer yesterday, they will be engaging more via TFF early next year
 
Clive

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Jackov Altraids said:
I must have missed the answer to who from the AHDB voted on the GFC, and how they voted.

Could someone tell me.
Click to expand...


see here

Ask AHDB – Cereals and Oilseeds Levy Increase Proposals

AHDB’s Cereals and Oilseeds Sector Council would like your questions about proposals to improve services and deliver more by increasing levy rates from the start of the 2024/25 financial year. Sector Chair Tom Clarke will be taking part in a Q and A session, responding to questions from levy...
thefarmingforum.co.uk thefarmingforum.co.uk

I'm not convinced all my questions were fully answered however ! ?
 
Jackov Altraids

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Clive said:
see here

Ask AHDB – Cereals and Oilseeds Levy Increase Proposals

AHDB’s Cereals and Oilseeds Sector Council would like your questions about proposals to improve services and deliver more by increasing levy rates from the start of the 2024/25 financial year. Sector Chair Tom Clarke will be taking part in a Q and A session, responding to questions from levy...
thefarmingforum.co.uk thefarmingforum.co.uk

I'm not convinced all my questions were fully answered however ! ?
Click to expand...

Rather danced around the question.

Tim Rycroft probably wasn't there, there may not have been an actual vote but it was supported by AHDB.

The continued subterfuge concerns me by all parties.
 
Clive

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Jackov Altraids said:
Rather danced around the question.

Tim Rycroft probably wasn't there, there may not have been an actual vote but it was supported by AHDB.

The continued subterfuge concerns me by all parties.
Click to expand...

didn't say who was there when AFS board debated it (someone was) in Tim Rycrofts absence

did confirm that sector boards had not discussed this or even been made aware of this - thats frankly shocking !! it undermines the very reason they exist IMO - this makes the answer of WHO made this decision / represents AHDB on the AFS board even more important to get a straight answer as they did so personally without any mandate

didn't mention that the funding was cut to RT 2 years ago ONLY AFTER a few of us from here (BFU now )met with AHDB and asked questions why that funding was happening at all ? or that AHDB's attitude towards RT seemed to change dramatically after a series of FOI requests exposed a rather cosy relationship from a now "retired" AHDB senior employee

didn't really answer Abi's challenges to the answers IMO

did make it clear that AHDB were no longer particularly supportive of red Tractor - which is unsurprising given how toxic the entire issue has become
 
Last edited:
slackjawedyokel

slackjawedyokel

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northumberland
@Levy Believer @AHDB
Thankyou for coming back to answer some of the questions we have, particularly with regard to RT and the GFC.
I would still like to know whether Tim Rycroft’s stand-in at the crucial RT meeting voted for the GFC to ‘go ahead’ and be announced to start on 1/4/24.
Does the AHDB consider that GFC is a way for retailers to require farmers to generate and hand over carbon-credits and Biodiversity Net Gain (at the farmer’s cost and inspection costs), which could have a high monetary value for the retailers?
Most supermarkets have signed up to the ‘WWF Basket’. Is this a way for supermarkets to act in a cartel- like way with regard to suppliers without falling foul of CMA rules on cartels?
Thanks, David Renner.
 
Tamar

Tamar

Member
Clive said:
didn't say who was there when AFS board debated it (someone was) in Tim Rycrofts absence

did confirm that sector boards had not discussed this or even been made aware of this - thats frankly shocking !! it undermines the very reason they exist IMO - this makes the answer of WHO made this decision / represents AHDB on the AFS board even more important to get a straight answer as they did so personally without any mandate

didn't mention that the funding was cut to RT 2 years ago ONLY AFTER a few of us from here (BFU now )met with AHDB and asked questions why that funding was happening at all ? or that AHDB's attitude towards RT seemed to change dramatically after a series of FOI requests exposed a rather cosy relationship from a now "retired" AHDB senior employee

didn't really answer Abi's challenges to the answers IMO

did make it clear that AHDB were no longer particularly supportive of red Tractor - which is unsurprising given how toxic the entire issue has become
Click to expand...

At least they have listened and realise that if they don’t start working for their levy payers, they will be out of a job.

The spud farmers ditching them has been a wake up call.

It’s not hard to organize a vote if things don’t improve
 
Levy Believer

Levy Believer

Member
Arable Farmer
Jackov Altraids said:
Rather danced around the question.

Tim Rycroft probably wasn't there, there may not have been an actual vote but it was supported by AHDB.

The continued subterfuge concerns me by all parties.
Click to expand...
Tim Rycroft wasn't there. (But that's pretty irrelevant, as we sent someone else instead)

We can't tell you how we voted, because a vote wasn't held. (Which is poor governance)

AHDB Sector Councils had not been in the loop on the GFC, and had not had any knowledge of it's development as far as I am aware. Therefore there were no discussions and no votes or consultations within or by AHDB. (I feel, as I said on 9th November, that was a fundamental mistake on our part, but tbh we had almost no oversight of what was being developed anyway.)

There may not have been a vote at the Main Board meeting in question, but I understand we led a robust discussion where serious changes were won, to what would otherwise have been a fait accompli - but as before it was clear that AHDB was alone (at that meeting as in previous ones) in viewing the GFC and the process that created it as being fundamentally flawed.

I think that answers all the questions as put? But they only illuminate what DIDN'T happen.

What I've been at pains to try to point out is what AHDB DID do.

AHDB has been a lonely voice for 2+ years at RT, raising fundamental challenges to the way assurance is conceived and run. We cut all funding to RT and publicly called for change. Nothing budged.

AHDB redoubled it's efforts privately on the AFS Board, and among the other owners and, sadly and rather remarkably, remained a lonely voice.

As I understand it, the GFC was developed without AHDB oversight by the RT Exec and with the involvement of one of two of the other owners (the BFC obviously announced it's launch themselves!).

I am glad now that NFU England have recently via a NFU Council motion joined AHDB's longstanding challenges to and constructive criticism of RT. Better late than never.

I am hopeful that NFU Scotland and UFU will also join our efforts to launch a wide ranging, independent and fundamental review of Assurance across the UK - which currently AHDB and NFU England are drawing up terms of reference for between us.

Cereals and Oilseeds growers, growing a commodity product of which we are now a net importer, are particularly poorly served by an assurance scheme that seeks to combine streamlined market access with also being a brand or provenance denoting higher quality. This seems to me to be too great a stretch.

I do welcome the proposed new Entry Standard for feed wheat that RT have been developing as a move in the right direction.

What surprises me most in all of these recent shenanigans is that it was AHDB and not the farming Unions that has been fighting for a better deal in assurance for producers - and sometimes even in the face of resistance from those farming unions.

I'm sure that will change. I hope it will do so quickly.
 
Levy Believer

Levy Believer

Member
Arable Farmer
Tamar said:
At least they have listened and realise that if they don’t start working for their levy payers, they will be out of a job.

The spud farmers ditching them has been a wake up call.

It’s not hard to organize a vote if things don’t improve
Click to expand...
My job is being a farmer.

The AHDB stuff is very much on the side.

The reason I spend time off-farm for the AHDB is because I do actually believe they can and should do more to help farmers stay farmers.

So you are half-right, if AHDB doesn't deliver for farmers then I won't be out of one job, I'll be out of two! No longer at Chairing the Sector Council and no longer a viable farmer either.
That why I signes up, to help AHDB help farming do better.
 
B'o'B

B'o'B

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Rutland
@Levy Believer here is something that we desperately need the AHDB to do for all its levy payers, farmer and processor alike. And fast!

We all need AHDB to urgently crunch the numbers on what UK Ag looks like under full WWF Basket conditions with retail having access to imports via current and likely upcoming trade agreements!
 
willyorkshire

willyorkshire

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
East Yorkshire
Levy Believer said:
Tim Rycroft wasn't there. (But that's pretty irrelevant, as we sent someone else instead)

We can't tell you how we voted, because a vote wasn't held. (Which is poor governance)

AHDB Sector Councils had not been in the loop on the GFC, and had not had any knowledge of it's development as far as I am aware. Therefore there were no discussions and no votes or consultations within or by AHDB. (I feel, as I said on 9th November, that was a fundamental mistake on our part, but tbh we had almost no oversight of what was being developed anyway.)

There may not have been a vote at the Main Board meeting in question, but I understand we led a robust discussion where serious changes were won, to what would otherwise have been a fait accompli - but as before it was clear that AHDB was alone (at that meeting as in previous ones) in viewing the GFC and the process that created it as being fundamentally flawed.

I think that answers all the questions as put? But they only illuminate what DIDN'T happen.

What I've been at pains to try to point out is what AHDB DID do.

AHDB has been a lonely voice for 2+ years at RT, raising fundamental challenges to the way assurance is conceived and run. We cut all funding to RT and publicly called for change. Nothing budged.

AHDB redoubled it's efforts privately on the AFS Board, and among the other owners and, sadly and rather remarkably, remained a lonely voice.

As I understand it, the GFC was developed without AHDB oversight by the RT Exec and with the involvement of one of two of the other owners (the BFC obviously announced it's launch themselves!).

I am glad now that NFU England have recently via a NFU Council motion joined AHDB's longstanding challenges to and constructive criticism of RT. Better late than never.

I am hopeful that NFU Scotland and UFU will also join our efforts to launch a wide ranging, independent and fundamental review of Assurance across the UK - which currently AHDB and NFU England are drawing up terms of reference for between us.

Cereals and Oilseeds growers, growing a commodity product of which we are now a net importer, are particularly poorly served by an assurance scheme that seeks to combine streamlined market access with also being a brand or provenance denoting higher quality. This seems to me to be too great a stretch.

I do welcome the proposed new Entry Standard for feed wheat that RT have been developing as a move in the right direction.

What surprises me most in all of these recent shenanigans is that it was AHDB and not the farming Unions that has been fighting for a better deal in assurance for producers - and sometimes even in the face of resistance from those farming unions.

I'm sure that will change. I hope it will do so quickly.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your frank response. I, too, find it alarming that the NFU weren't on the same page as AHDB and appear to want to go the full 'Gold Plating' route. The NFU exodus will continue if the GFC isn't fully retracted. That means binned! Get back to basics has to be the message from Farmers. There's a lot in RT we don't need.
 
tepapa

tepapa

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North Wales
Levy Believer said:
Tim Rycroft wasn't there. (But that's pretty irrelevant, as we sent someone else instead)
Click to expand...
I applaud you for coming on TFF and helping us understand AHDB's position but in your first line you created/reinforced distrust between readers and the AHDB.

You state Tim Rycroft didn't attend but fail to name , yet again, who took his place. What does AHDB have to hide about who attended the meeting? You go on to list the support AHDB has done for agriculture over the last couple of years but I feel you've already lost our trust by hiding certain facts such as this.

I also feel for your position, similar to the county councillors of the nfu, where your trying you best for the industry but upper management, let's call them the gravy train passengers, have other ideas so your good work is an irrelevance when they're steering the ship so to speak in a completely different direction.
 
ollie989898

ollie989898

Member
Location
Hanging from a twig, in a deep sleep.
Clive said:
^^. this @Levy Believer maybe feed this back ?

It's not easy to deal with the difficult questions and complaints but ignoring them doesn't make them go away !

I had an interesting chat with a EA communications officer yesterday, they will be engaging more via TFF early next year
Click to expand...

Best thing for the EA to do would be to rebrand itself the Environmental digger drivers association. Maybe they would recruit the right kind of folk then. Or maybe just take all waterway maintenance out of their hands and give it to a third party as has happened in Somerset.
 

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