Cough

Macsky said:

My agenda

How many children and pregnant women were involved in covid vaccine trials years ago?

Are you denying that there have been any vaccine attributable harms?

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ollie989898 said:

Children and pregnant woman are never included in vaccine trials, because they are never included in medical trials generally. This is because their metabolism and physiology differs and there could be implications for the health of the foetus in utero. Had you bothered to read up on basically anything you would already know this. It's standard precautionary measures that are adopted for any trial.

You will also note that a large number of medicines used in pregnant mothers and in children are done so entirely off-label.

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Macsky said:

Like ivermectin? They get smeared and mocked at every opportunity and set up to fail in rigged trials.

What about vitamin D? There seemed to be high correlation between those who died early on and low vit d levels, why wasn’t there more of a push to proactively increase the health of the nation, you know, stuff like eat healthy whole foods, get outside in the fresh air and exercise, lose weight where necessary, I don’t recall hearing any promotion of these things at the time or since on the news, they were too preoccupied spreading fear and panic (great for the health) with their ever increasing tally of deaths (in small letters:folk who died within 28 days of a positive test) given prominence over everything. Then they went on to promote the vaccines as a total panacea, take the jab and you won’t get covid, 99% effective, even if you are unfortunate enough to still get it, you surely won’t pass it on- all turned out to be utter rubbish.

Honestly, I urge anyone to spend a bit of time thinking about it, the whole thing was insane.

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Macsky said:

So administering the vaccine to pregnant women and children was entirely experimental? This is so wrong especially in the case of children, who were at next to no risk of serious illness from covid.

How many novel medicines are authorised for emergency use in children and pregnant women?

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ollie989898 said:

Children and pregnant women are rarely included in initial clinical trials. This should surprise no one. In phase 1 trials they prefer men of the same approximate age, normally 18-25. Only in later phase 3 trials are greater and more diverse groups of people used as a study sample which better represents the population in which the product will be used. Again, this follows basic precautionary principles and because pregnancy and age introduce complexities to trials that could affect the results. It costs millions to perform these trials so it is important to control as many variables as possible to avoid undue errors in the results.

If you are saying children were at no risk from covid, then where is the evidence? Show it to me or are you another who spouts out opinion you can't substantiate? You say 'next to no risk'- alright then, on the basis of that belief, you go and tell parents that and drive a public health campaign on the back of it? Tell me: are my kids at risk or not? I don't think they have any neurological or developmental problems, but I couldn't tell you if they are immunosuppressed or not- nor can anyone unless they were screened for them. Should they be vaccinated? And before you answer bear in mind I have met families whose children were affected by covid in a significant way, including lasting or even permanent disability. How confident are you that no one need vaccinate their kids because I reckon I could find some parents who would strongly disagree?

In this case though, the vaccines were trialled on pregnant women and children; but later on and after more information was gained from their use in adults. This is the precise same way in which the bulk of medicines prescribed for children and in pregnancy came into common use in those patients- but technically, they are being used off-label.

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Macsky said:

They were trialled/they weren’t trialled, make up your mind

There is absolutely no point in showing you any studies, this has been tried many times before on other threads on this forum and you just “don’t have the time” to read them.

I am very confident that on a population level, as is the reality here, that children would be far safer unvaccinated against covid. I have two young children, and there’s not a chance they’re getting these vaccines, how much more confident do you want?

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ollie989898 said:

Ivermectin didn't work. Maybe you didn't get that message. It was trialled extensively by multiple centres around the world. No one expected it to work, not after the original manufacturer (Merck) came out and said: 'errr... we don't think this will work'. If you're saying that multiple researchers in multiple centres around the world conspired to hide the truth then you're clearly describing a global conspiracy to subvert the truth which is near Bond villain levels of scale. The simpler and thus more likely explanation is that it didn't work. Another reason why you shouldn't put all your hopes on in vitro trials which is a rather more simple environment than a actual body.

Vitamin D- again people who are talking about it as some kind of magic cure don't understand what it is or what it does or how it works. Vitamin D has an important function in the body and too much of it would would be as deleterious as too little. Because of this, it is closely regulated (as with most other things) and you can try to consume more thinking it is beneficial but ultimately there are processes in place to get rid of it if necessary. It is also an acute phase reactant which means levels of it change in response to changes in body physiology. It is true that a proportion of people living in the Northern Hemisphere may have apparent vitamin D deficiency but there is not general consensus on what levels should be or how they should be addressed, nor are the effects of low vitamin D immediately apparent (if you had none, however, you would soon know it).

Lose/weight exercise- this is all generalised and hardly going to do much for a virus that was capable of putting healthy fit people into intensive care.

The vaccines worked- this must was evident and I posted multiple references from multiple centres demonstrating this. Stop wasting our time.

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DrDunc said:

It's a shame that you have had to resort to actual facts and reference technical trial methodology to attempt dispel and debunk conspiracies

Don't know why everyone's getting so het up about it all?

Obviously injecting disinfectant and fetal kidney samples is the only real cure

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COVID-19 Excess Deaths in Peru's 25 States in 2020: Nationwide Trends, Confounding Factors, and Correlations With the Extent of Ivermectin Treatment by State - PubMed

Introduction In 2020, nations hastened to contain an emerging COVID-19 pandemic by deploying diverse public health approaches, but conclusive appraisals of the efficacy of these approaches are elusive in most cases. One of the medicines deployed, ivermectin (IVM), a macrocyclic lactone having...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Macsky said:

This any use?

View attachment 1157765

COVID-19 Excess Deaths in Peru's 25 States in 2020: Nationwide Trends, Confounding Factors, and Correlations With the Extent of Ivermectin Treatment by State - PubMed

Introduction In 2020, nations hastened to contain an emerging COVID-19 pandemic by deploying diverse public health approaches, but conclusive appraisals of the efficacy of these approaches are elusive in most cases. One of the medicines deployed, ivermectin (IVM), a macrocyclic lactone having...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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jendan said:

My 17 year old son admitted to hospital this afternoon with pneumonia.Blood Sats very low,so he has Oxygen through a tube in his nose.5 day course of antibiotics havent worked.Nearly all of his college mates had flu/cough symptoms before they finished for Christmas. RVI in Newcastle very busy. He was in a chair in a corridor for a good few hours before he got a bed.

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Macsky said:

This any use?

View attachment 1157765

COVID-19 Excess Deaths in Peru's 25 States in 2020: Nationwide Trends, Confounding Factors, and Correlations With the Extent of Ivermectin Treatment by State - PubMed

Introduction In 2020, nations hastened to contain an emerging COVID-19 pandemic by deploying diverse public health approaches, but conclusive appraisals of the efficacy of these approaches are elusive in most cases. One of the medicines deployed, ivermectin (IVM), a macrocyclic lactone having...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Macsky said:

This any use?

View attachment 1157765

COVID-19 Excess Deaths in Peru's 25 States in 2020: Nationwide Trends, Confounding Factors, and Correlations With the Extent of Ivermectin Treatment by State - PubMed

Introduction In 2020, nations hastened to contain an emerging COVID-19 pandemic by deploying diverse public health approaches, but conclusive appraisals of the efficacy of these approaches are elusive in most cases. One of the medicines deployed, ivermectin (IVM), a macrocyclic lactone having...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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ollie989898 said:

Did you read this part at the bottom?

Juan J. Chamie-Quintero contributes data analyses to the COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC), an organization that promotes ivermectin as a treatment for COVID-19. He has been paid for some of this work through January 2023. Financial relationships: Juan J. Chamie-Quintero declares personal fees from Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC) received through January 2023. Jennifer A. Hibberd declares non-financial support from Canadian Covid Care Alliance and from the World Council for Health (WCH). Other relationships: Jennifer A. Hibberd is a co-founder of the Canadian Covid Care Alliance and of the World Council for Health, both of which encourage ivermectin as a treatment for COVID-19. Juan J. Chamie-Quintero contributes data analyses to the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC).

Have an exploratory google of what some clinicians think of the FLCCC... For example:

View attachment 1157767

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primmiemoo said:

Quoting liars doesn't change that ivermectin doesn't work against covid. The only way ivermectin stops covid is when it is given at huge overdose. The facts are settled. People who died because they took ivermectin instead of proven preventatives against covid are no longer here to give their views on its effectiveness, either. Thank goodness for the new president of Peru.

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DrDunc said:

It's a shame that you have had to resort to actual facts and reference technical trial methodology to attempt dispel and debunk conspiracies

Don't know why everyone's getting so het up about it all?

Obviously injecting disinfectant and fetal kidney samples is the only real cure

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Bossfarmer said:

why are we not being taught in schools about the damage of ultra processed foods?

why are they not teaching everyone that steak, meat etc are the most nutrient dense foods we can eat, why are they not telling us how nutritious eggs are, the need for vit supplements in scottish winters etc why are we having to learn all this ourselves yet they wasted my time learning algebra

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Bossfarmer said:

why are we not being taught in schools about the damage of ultra processed foods?

why are they not teaching everyone that steak, meat etc are the most nutrient dense foods we can eat, why are they not telling us how nutritious eggs are, the need for vit supplements in scottish winters etc why are we having to learn all this ourselves yet they wasted my time learning algebra

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Macsky said:

Yes I read it, imagine folk looking for treatment options funding other like minded folk to research treatments, barmy.

Ivermectin being off patent now for many years, I’m not sure how someone recommending it’s use qualifies as a snake oil merchant.

Wait until you read about it and fenbendazole being studied as cancer treatments, you’ll be furious!

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Macsky said:

Who’s lying? And what is the lie?

The facts won’t be settled until everybody with a financial interest either way is long dead.

How do you define an ivermectin overdose? Who died because they took ivermectin?

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