Sewage treatment installation trespass.

Gettin by · Feb 8, 2024

Looking for options and ideas on how to remove someone’s sewage treatment unit from my land.
patch of field leased out for garden and kids pony back in 2012. Agreement was that when kids move on from pony then ground comes back. You can see where this is heading already unfortunately.
‘Can we buy the land?’ (300 sq m). No from me as manager and no from owner so all put to bed in theory while still being nice landowners etc.
Roll forward to this last year and land coming back one way or another except for a sewage treatment plant installed sometime 2019. We don’t want to sell and they refuse to remove it but would consider buying the land for 10k.
solicitors involved now with no luck in resolution.
court injunction estimate 150k doesn’t fit with our finance obviously so I’m planning on waiting out the problem having spent far more than agreed with solicitors already.
I want the land and adjoining 3ac field back into useable production without threats of harassment, criminal damage and police intervention but they need to sell a building plot with drainage system on my land.
No good deed goes unpunished and I shouldn’t have let them go feral in the first place I realise but any ideas on ‘helping’ the job along?

Oliveau · Feb 8, 2024

What sort of sewage treatment unit? is it a package plant or a Klargester or just a septic tank? Was there any SWW involvement?
In any case, what they have done is totally illegal. So no costly injunction needed. Just get them served with a formal notice to remove illegal apparaus from your land and to reinstate, within 28 days. Failing that you will have the work carried out at their expense.

It just begs the question - why did no-one on your side not notice what was going on when it was installed 5 years ago?

Gettin by · Feb 8, 2024

I believe it’s a klargester unit.
They’ve been served with a formal notice but refuse to move it while kindly offering to buy the land. Any physical actions by ourselves will apparently result in police engagement due to criminal damage of their property.
Good luck getting the police out for anything rural in this county!
The whole site has been dug up various times over the years so nothing out of the ordinary and I was made aware that a soak away pipe would be near the boundary. Beyond that we try not to be overbearing neighbours.
The issue was only highlighted when a potential purchaser approached me with a query over the waste service he would be sharing. I’m quite able to physically remove the unit, re landscape my field corner and reinstate the necessary hedge and fencing but apparently not without another level of authority unless I ignore correct procedure and call in local reinforcements.

betweenthelines · Feb 8, 2024

My personal opinion is that the OP would struggle to get any legal backing for his case.

The neighbour will argue that they did the work with the knowledge of the OP and he (the OP) has not objected or complained for 5 years.

Similar to if you let someone use a path or track for a few years "without let or hinderence" it becomes "established"

Edited to add: typed while OP was posting the above.

Pigken · Feb 8, 2024

I appreciate you don't want any hassle etc, but just go in darkness rip the bleeding thing out dump it on their drive and be away, they are taking the pee on a royal scale. An agreement was in place they have broken it simples. By doing the above they can not prove it was you, you can counter argue they have done it themselves to get you in trouble and strengthen their case.

010101 · Feb 8, 2024

The equipment is causing you a private nuisance.

Your solicitor could be the wrong one for you.

Welderloon · Feb 8, 2024

Just rock up with a digger, dig it out & place it on their land without anyone actually being on their land, then send the bill to them.
If there is no agreement in place for their install then its basically theft & vandalism on their part, police have no jurisdiction as its a civil matter & you are re-claiming land.
If they become real arsey, fill the system with sand, it is on your land & therefor your property then create a bonfire directly above it continually burning enough to melt it, then stack straw bales interspersed with a couple of grainy wholecrop bales very close to the boundary.
If that fails then unfortunately people die crossing the roads in this country regularly...............

davidroberts30 · Feb 8, 2024

Welderloon said:
Just rock up with a digger, dig it out & place it on their land without anyone actually being on their land, then send the bill to them.
If there is no agreement in place for their install then its basically theft & vandalism on their part, police have no jurisdiction as its a civil matter & you are re-claiming land.
If they become real arsey, fill the system with sand, it is on your land & therefor your property then create a bonfire directly above it continually burning enough to melt it, then stack straw bales interspersed with a couple of grainy wholecrop bales very close to the boundary.
If that fails then unfortunately people die crossing the roads in this country regularly...............

sss

ISCO · Feb 8, 2024

To claim an easement for the plant would take 20 years of use without permission or objection. I would talk to a different solicitor.

Gettin by · Feb 8, 2024

Rare for this forum but I agree with everyone!
Solicitor is on borrowed expensive time but legal foundations to avoid any future claim have been established which is a start.
The digger is on a fencing job presently but won’t be parked up for long….
I was curious to see if it’s me missing the point or just too busy farming to keep on top of housekeeping.
Thanks.

Welderloon · Feb 8, 2024

Its the arrogance of people now that infuriates me, they genuinely think they can do what they want with other people's property all the while thinking people in the country will be a soft touch.

010101 · Feb 8, 2024

Welderloon said:
Its the arrogance of people now that infuriates me, they genuinely think they can do what they want with other people's property all the while thinking people in the country will be a soft touch.

The rulers spraying the nation's currency around like they are watering their primroses does set the example.

br jones · Feb 8, 2024

just cut thier inlet pipe ,put a blocker in it ,then do them for trespass if they try to rectify it
what they going to do about it ? call the police ? they will call it a civil matter and leave ,its on your property without permission ,its yours take it away

Levelsman · Feb 9, 2024

Gettin by said:
Looking for options and ideas on how to remove someone’s sewage treatment unit from my land.
patch of field leased out for garden and kids pony back in 2012. Agreement was that when kids move on from pony then ground comes back. You can see where this is heading already unfortunately.
‘Can we buy the land?’ (300 sq m). No from me as manager and no from owner so all put to bed in theory while still being nice landowners etc.
Roll forward to this last year and land coming back one way or another except for a sewage treatment plant installed sometime 2019. We don’t want to sell and they refuse to remove it but would consider buying the land for 10k.
solicitors involved now with no luck in resolution.
court injunction estimate 150k doesn’t fit with our finance obviously so I’m planning on waiting out the problem having spent far more than agreed with solicitors already.
I want the land and adjoining 3ac field back into useable production without threats of harassment, criminal damage and police intervention but they need to sell a building plot with drainage system on my land.
No good deed goes unpunished and I shouldn’t have let them go feral in the first place I realise but any ideas on ‘helping’ the job along?

Have they already got PP for the building plot? If so, surely drainage would have to of been specified and EA consulted, and if passed, could be more tricky.

How often do you visit said paddock - I don't understand how anyone would allow this to happen!
Obviously there was substantial excavations for tank and soakaway. As said, did it not go past SWW?

Another option - buy a cheap building plot!

serf · Feb 9, 2024

br jones said:
just cut thier inlet pipe ,put a blocker in it ,then do them for trespass if they try to rectify it
what they going to do about it ? call the police ? they will call it a civil matter and leave ,its on your property without permission ,its yours take it away

Sounds most effective option

Dry Rot · Feb 9, 2024

The solicitor sounds as if he is the wills and house sales type. Get a large national multi-faceted firm of land agents on the job who will probably have encountered this sort of thing in the past. Might turn out cheapest in the long run.

milkloss · Feb 9, 2024

Do they ever go on holiday?

Will they be able to sell a building plot with a land dispute ongoing? Do you want an official dispute or be better off waiting ‘til holiday time?

JR. · Feb 9, 2024

What about the outlet from this plant - where does that drain to?

If it drains into your ditch you could block that ditch just downstream from the outlet and this will result in the treatment plant failing. You won't have actually interacted with the plant at all so there could be no claim for damaging it, you will have just created a siutation in a close, but physically separate, location that makes the plant useless.

Typically you need a licence to discharge from a treatment plant into anything other than your own ditch, so I am hoping for you that they don't own the ditch it dishcharges into.

You also need to make sure that the land is registered to you on the Land Registry to stop any claim for posessory rights - although they don't seem to have been there long enough to have established these or a prescriptive easement to drain.

Don't dig it up, don't physically damage it - no matter how tempting or rewarding that might feel in the short term, because the law is never kind to those that act in its stead.

HatsOff · Feb 9, 2024

Welderloon said:
Just rock up with a digger, dig it out & place it on their land without anyone actually being on their land, then send the bill to them.
If there is no agreement in place for their install then its basically theft & vandalism on their part, police have no jurisdiction as its a civil matter & you are re-claiming land.
If they become real arsey, fill the system with sand, it is on your land & therefor your property then create a bonfire directly above it continually burning enough to melt it, then stack straw bales interspersed with a couple of grainy wholecrop bales very close to the boundary.
If that fails then unfortunately people die crossing the roads in this country regularly...............

Not sure I'd take this legal advice.

It's their property even if it is on your land. Else any time you put something down, it'd belong to someone else.
Damaging it, digging it up etc is criminal damage.
And then you end with suggesting murder.

I think I should get a second opinion from a different solicitor or a land agent. If they also don't see an easy way out then consider having them relocate it somewhere more convenient to you and then sublet the use of the land at some high rate.

L P · Feb 9, 2024

Ignorance is bliss, just get a neighbour to mole plough the whole field. It's accidental damage then. Buy them a clargester to replace the broken one on their own land and rack it up to experience.

Sewage treatment installation trespass.

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