- Location
- Berkshire
No amount of support changes that situation!
Winter cover crops on heavy land... what a disaster
- Thread starter Wigeon
- Start date
- Location
- Top of the Chilterns
Sooooooooooo.....
I think we are agreed that:
1 in the absence of subsidy, winter cover crops on heavy soil are a waste of time, by and large, from the view at least of the bottom line and the following spring crop.
2 agronomically, if you are going to grow them, or have to grow them, do so with maximum disturbance, and leave the soil rough.
3. Don't be tempted to direct drill either the cover crop or the following crop.
Anything else?
I think we are agreed that:
1 in the absence of subsidy, winter cover crops on heavy soil are a waste of time, by and large, from the view at least of the bottom line and the following spring crop.
2 agronomically, if you are going to grow them, or have to grow them, do so with maximum disturbance, and leave the soil rough.
3. Don't be tempted to direct drill either the cover crop or the following crop.
Anything else?
- Location
- Berkshire
4. Don’t spend a fortune on seed
Bossfarmer
Member
- Location
- between Perth and Inverness
so if half the land is taken out of cereal production in the uk the livestock guys wont have to pay more?
- Location
- Berkshire
Not if imports come in at the parity, which they would atm
Ukraine kicking back off and gas prices rising would have more effect imho
Edit . Straws a different matter mind but there would be plenty of ropey NUM3 to mow for bedding !!
uk cereal production doesn’t set prices - global supply / demand does
1 I don’t agree with. It’s taken me quite a long time to actually work out how to manage them in order to add value though.
- Location
- Bedfordshire
Hedge fund managers set the price! Look at the fundamentals for world harvest ‘24, price should be higher
- Location
- Lincolnshire
I can see the theory but the reality is I’m glad my brother insisted on ploughing everything last autumn slightly against my own opinion, skewed as it is by listening to all this regenerative stuff.
I think that yes covers can possibly work but it’s nothing like as easy as people think it is in terms of cover type, management, rotation etc. That’s about as charitable as I can be about it. They simply are not big enough, green enough and manly enough to suck enough water up here this spring and the shade and slug haven they provide is actually counter productive. If it dries up in April then folk might stand a chance drilling spring barley into them but it looks high risk where I’m sitting.
I think that yes covers can possibly work but it’s nothing like as easy as people think it is in terms of cover type, management, rotation etc. That’s about as charitable as I can be about it. They simply are not big enough, green enough and manly enough to suck enough water up here this spring and the shade and slug haven they provide is actually counter productive. If it dries up in April then folk might stand a chance drilling spring barley into them but it looks high risk where I’m sitting.
That’s why on heavy land an autumn catch crop and spring cover crop have different aims and management.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
The best entry I’ve found for spring barley (before these stupidly wet winters) is simply to rough it up in the autumn with a stubble cultivator. That gets a good chit of volunteer wheat and weeds. Spray off before drilling straight in. The cover isn’t big enough to shade the soil too much or hamper the drill. I suppose you could sow something small and low growing at the same time as roughing it up in the autumn. But I certainly would not want a strong cover to deal with on heavy land here in the spring, from a shading, slug and drilling point of view though my drill is just an old unidrill.
- Location
- Essex
To be fair to @Wigeon, he has been cover cropping for 9 years, which is when a lot of farmers started. So 11 out of 10 for trying.
It's mostly been appalling weather for most of that time, which hasn't helped. We've also mostly had poor prices, rising costs and I would say falling optimism.
Agree you definitely do not want a massive huge cover in the spring. Spray off Jan. we tend to use buckwheat, which dies in a frost, low rate phacelia, vetch and a little linseed. Costs about £25/ha and broadcast on then cultivated in.
Autumn catch crop opposite, big and green to drill into. The most weatherproof way I have found of establishing autumn crops if the weather goes bad. Obviously limited to certain scenarios though.
- Location
- Essex
Ukraine may have lots of honey, but the overall decline in insects is well documented.
In a German nature reserve, over 20 years, insect biomass declined by 78%. Of course that may be nothing to do with neonicotinoids or even farming at all. But it does make you wonder how flea beetle and other agricultural pests are bucking the trend.
- Hmm. Some of the die hard no tillers swear blind that they would never live without CCs but I think you really need to be equipped with the right drills and lots of patience to do it. The SW6/SAM2 payments help justify trying it & I think we all appreciate that nitrate leaching is reduced by winter CCs.
- Agreed, though that conflicts with the main regen principles of low disturbance. I'm with you on this though.
- Not necessarily, though if you're leaving the surface open & rough, you aren't really DDing anyway.
So far, I haven't engaged with the whole SFI/BPS taxpayer sideshow in this thread, but I will say this - cover crops are one way of encouraging soil & nitrate protection that we might otherwise have heavy handed regulation for. Ask a Welsh or EU farmer what that looks like. We have a carrot being dangled, they have a big, sh*tty stick beating them up. Climate change mitigation policies are here to stay.
Foxcover
Member
Stranger things have happened.
TelesnaAg
Member
- Location
- Portland, Victoria - Australia
Linseed on wet ground???
Id be using a balansa clover and the like that can grow literally under water, however i understand the gist, managing that on the flip side can be challenging, in oz i use to sell the clover as silage before going to spring barley, worked well,.two incomes.
Ant...
Id be using a balansa clover and the like that can grow literally under water, however i understand the gist, managing that on the flip side can be challenging, in oz i use to sell the clover as silage before going to spring barley, worked well,.two incomes.
Ant...