Winter cover crops on heavy land... what a disaster

[Wigeon]

I farm heavy silty clay with flints. No ditches, no land drains. Good strong wheat land, if unforgiving.

I've been trying to grow cover crops on and off for the last 9 yrs. With one exception, they have all been disastrous.

Summer cover crops in place of a spring crop, on the other hand, can be brilliant, and this yrs wheat following one looks excellent.

Anyway, this yr I thought right, let's keep it simple. Spring linseed seed direct drilled straight behind the combine. Grew well. Nothing better for soil conditioning, generally the dryest stubbles etc. Flailed off in January frosts.

i sprayed off grass weeds underneath it yesterday, and my goodness was it sad. Water standing everywhere. Could barely travel.

I'm very tempted never to grow one again. I will certainly be drilling the worked ground first, as in weeks earlier at this rate.

Has anyone actually really cracked it, on difficult soils? As in it actually makes a positive difference to the following crop. There's a whole load of chat, but I'd be really interested to know, because otherwise I'm very tempted to conclude that it's all a complete and utter waste of time.

Any experiences welcome!

 

[Wombat]

I farm heavy silty clay with flints. No ditches, no land drains. Good strong wheat land, if unforgiving.

I've been trying to grow cover crops on and off for the last 9 yrs. With one exception, they have all been disastrous.

Summer cover crops in place of a spring crop, on the other hand, can be brilliant, and this yrs wheat following one looks excellent.

Anyway, this yr I thought right, let's keep it simple. Spring linseed seed direct drilled straight behind the combine. Grew well. Nothing better for soil conditioning, generally the dryest stubbles etc. Flailed off in January frosts.

i sprayed off grass weeds underneath it yesterday, and my goodness was it sad. Water standing everywhere. Could barely travel.

I'm very tempted never to grow one again. I will certainly be drilling the worked ground first, as in weeks earlier at this rate.

Has anyone actually really cracked it, on difficult soils? As in it actually makes a positive difference to the following crop. There's a whole load of chat, but I'd be really interested to know, because otherwise I'm very tempted to conclude that it's all a complete and utter waste of time.

Any experiences welcome!

I have found cover crops on heavy land very hit and miss with them generally being more miss, they need to be gone by Jan to let the air dry the soil as the cover crop will just trap moisture and never dry out. The problem with that is doing anything with them in a normal jan without making a mess.

 

[Bob lincs]

I would like to know if anyone has actual evidence they have a financial benefit, no good just saying it’s good for the soil if it’s not going to make you more money why bother .

 

[Will 1594]

heavy land wants ploughing end september when dry ,then subsoiler trough it when it will carry , and get it half worked and level , forget your cover crop , Slugs and keep it wet wont dry same ,

 

[teslacoils]

No. Waste of time every time we did it. Either leave the stubbles be, sprayed off before winter, or black it all over in good order.

 

[will_mck]

On heavy land here with lots of winter rain to boot. I tried cover crops for the first time as part of a scheme. Needed to protect the stubble ground over winter ahead of this year's spring crops, it'll be burnt off and ploughed down though. I knew most cover crops wouldn't survive and it's late September before its sown so needed something hardy. Under the scheme you have to sow two varieties. I spun on some spring oats off the grain heap along with a tiny amount of fodder rape and scratched the ground with an old set of pin harrows. It's grown ok, all fields were subsoiled and anywhere there's a subsoiler track there's about 3 times the establishment so a bit more cultivation would have helped. Although it's a risky business doing late cultivation at that time of the year as if it gets alot of rain for the rest of time it will leave the topsoil in a soup. I'd do it again with slightly deeper cultivation next time. That's my 2 cents anyway.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

If the purpose of cover crops is to increase soil organic matter, what's the alternative?

 

[will_mck]

If the purpose of cover crops is to increase soil organic matter, what's the alternative?

If cover crops aren't working, why not forget about them and spread lots of poultry manure instead. I've 600 tons to get out in the next good spell of weather ahead of sowing the spring crops.

 

[Terrier]

I farm heavy silty clay with flints. No ditches, no land drains. Good strong wheat land, if unforgiving.

I've been trying to grow cover crops on and off for the last 9 yrs. With one exception, they have all been disastrous.

Summer cover crops in place of a spring crop, on the other hand, can be brilliant, and this yrs wheat following one looks excellent.

Anyway, this yr I thought right, let's keep it simple. Spring linseed seed direct drilled straight behind the combine. Grew well. Nothing better for soil conditioning, generally the dryest stubbles etc. Flailed off in January frosts.

i sprayed off grass weeds underneath it yesterday, and my goodness was it sad. Water standing everywhere. Could barely travel.

I'm very tempted never to grow one again. I will certainly be drilling the worked ground first, as in weeks earlier at this rate.

Has anyone actually really cracked it, on difficult soils? As in it actually makes a positive difference to the following crop. There's a whole load of chat, but I'd be really interested to know, because otherwise I'm very tempted to conclude that it's all a complete and utter waste of time.

Any experiences welcome!

Are some of these over winter cover crops actually any better than a well established autumn crop of cereals ? I know that won’t have the diversity of species (could be done with companions) but it does provide a living root and an effective nutrient sink without the hassle, cost and environmental downsides of having to remove and re-establish. Also not as ‘on trend‘.

 

[Bogweevil]

Never had the opportunity to test it, but you might expect a green cover crop to suck up moisture and quickly dry soil in April once transpiration exceeds rainfall.

 

[Spencer]

Never had the opportunity to test it, but you might expect a green cover crop to suck up moisture and quickly dry soil in April once transpiration exceeds rainfall.

I find nothing beats wind and sun exposure to bare soil for drying wet ground.. covers seem to keep wet ground wetter. Eventually they will suck the moisture but the bare ground is always first to drill

 

[fudge]

Well thank you for this thread! It’s an open goal so I will roll the ball over the line. As far as heavy land is concerned anything less than 12 months is bound to be an expensive waste of time for cover crops. Good for the seed merchant and the direct drill salesman/contractor but idiocy for the mug picking up the bill. The wetter it is the worse the idea. Indeed winter cover before spring cropping is the craziest of all, I once wasted an evening of my life to hear Dick Neale tell me that such a crop should be destroyed in November! What the heck?

 

[Spencer]

Well thank you for this thread! It’s an open goal so I will roll the ball over the line. As far as heavy land is concerned anything less than 12 months is bound to be an expensive waste of time for cover crops. Good for the seed merchant and the direct drill salesman/contractor but idiocy for the mug picking up the bill. The wetter it is the worse the idea. Indeed winter cover before spring cropping is the craziest of all, I once wasted an evening of my life to hear Dick Neale tell me that such a crop should be destroyed in November! What the heck?

No no no no no.. combine losses are called cover crops these days, no seed sales men required

 

[Wigeon]

Well thank you for this thread! It’s an open goal so I will roll the ball over the line. As far as heavy land is concerned anything less than 12 months is bound to be an expensive waste of time for cover crops. Good for the seed merchant and the direct drill salesman/contractor but idiocy for the mug picking up the bill. The wetter it is the worse the idea. Indeed winter cover before spring cropping is the craziest of all, I once wasted an evening of my life to hear Dick Neale tell me that such a crop should be destroyed in November! What the heck?

Yes, and that's after you've spent £50/ha on fancy seed, and another £60 on direct drilling it. Spray it off with 4 lts for another £25 Inc application, and you have to wonder who is being farmed....

 

[Bobthebuilder]

And it took 9 years to work out it was a waste of time and effort

 

[T Hectares]

I would like to know if anyone has actual evidence they have a financial benefit, no good just saying it’s good for the soil if it’s not going to make you more money why bother .

Yes, I get paid £129/ha for SW6 stewardship which would leave around £40ha profit after establishment and seed ( DD, hs oats and a low rate of Phacelia )

No other hidden costs and the yields of following SB are no different to the non CC fields, last year the best yields were following CC as I think the surface trash protected the crop from the heavy March and April rain
I did for the first time have to use some slug pellets in the SB in a few areas, but that was the the first time in 8 years of growing them

There is a financial benefit of generating more carbon sequestration credits if you so desire…

I will add the Caveat that I am on light land, I will shallow cultivate with a short disc pre drilling and have given up grazing them as this compromises BG control and can be a barrier to getting following crop drilled in a spring like the last two

So, yes I like them but only grow them on a third of my spring area as establishment clashes with OSR drilling and it would be a tall order to plant the whole area early enough

 

[T Hectares]

Yes, and that's after you've spent £50/ha on fancy seed, and another £60 on direct drilling it. Spray it off with 4 lts for another £25 Inc application, and you have to wonder who is being farmed....

CC’s are like a lot of things in farming
Keep it simple, resist the sales pitch of expensive seed, my covers have pretty much been nailed by frosts and had the same glypho as the other spring cropping

I wouldn’t grow them without the CS payment !

 

[fudge]

Utterly farcical that “carbon credits” are generated on arable ground. Somewhere a consumer is being ripped off by the net zero lie. Likewise a taxpayer who come August will be paying £73/ha for direct drilling the stuff on top of £123 for the winter cover and maybe another £73/ha for drilling the subsequent cash crop. Mind boggling.

 

[Hindsight]

I would like to know if anyone has actual evidence they have a financial benefit, no good just saying it’s good for the soil if it’s not going to make you more money why bother .

A long running trial with cover crops in advance of Spring sown crops has been undertaken by NIABTAG at the Morley farm in Norfolk. Started several years ago, 2010 or possibly earlier, cannot recall, at the start of this government encouragement to use cover crops.

At that time the initial focus of the trial work was nutrient trapping, primarily Nitrate, as a means to reduce Nitrate levels in surface and groundwater. There had been some consideration to make cover drops mandatory with NVZ regulations, though this policy option has never been introduced by legislators who have preferred a voluntary encouragement approach with financial inducement, thus SW6 in Stewardship.

The upshot of the trial work demonstrated quite effectively reduced leaching of Nitrate, thus environm benefit. Crop yields similar to non cover crop comparison, with indication yields of the plots which had cover crops over a number of rotations gained slightly higher yields, supporting the thought there is a long term benefit, but marginal. As for financial result this was neutral to negative as the additional costs outweighed any yield enhancement.

I have seen similar results from other similar trials. And as we see with SAM2 in SFI government is still operating a financial inducement methodology. And the development of carbon credits is another market mechanism to encourage uptake.

Just trying to remember the soil type at Morley. Think heavyish Sandy Loam, if that is not an oxymoron. And a mirror trial has started on a clay loam, heavier soil type.

 

[stroller]

I put a mixed species winter cover in but lots of linseed in, a homemade brew so don't know the percentage but 60 at a guess, neighbouring fields similar soil types, one is same as @Wigeon describes but the other one I subsoiled is a lot drier.