10 Yr Rotation plan

[JC4]

I'm doing an assignment as part of my Harper Adams university work where i have to design a 10 year rotation on a shallow, sandy soil.
Any ideas on what you guys are currently planning in terms of your rotations would be very helpful, as im having to think about market pressures, alongside supporting the livestock on the farm, cultivations and soil health.

So any details about your rotations would be greatly appreciated!

Ta,
JC

 

[Spud]

I'm assuming this is a fictitious farm?

Shallow sand over rock? or clay? Stoney? Irrigation available? What livestock is there? Steep, or flat? Blackgrass pressure?

A few possibilities:

Winter barley (better choice of first cereal than wheat on thin land imo)
Stubble turnips for sheep (kind land will carry stock in winter)
Spring barley
Oats (growing market, able to cope with hungry soils)
Winter barley
Kale? Winter feed crop anyway, either slotted in between winter and spring barley, or something like swedes, as a full crop in the rotation
Spring barley
Sugar/Fodder beet (late lifted given it sounds kind land to maximise yield) Either for feed or factory
Spring barley
Spring barley
Beans

If theres fym available, then pre roots is where I'd put it.

Hope thats some help

Spud

 

[JC4]

I'm assuming this is a fictitious farm?

Shallow sand over rock? or clay? Stoney? Irrigation available? What livestock is there? Steep, or flat? Blackgrass pressure?

A few possibilities:

Winter barley (better choice of first cereal than wheat on thin land imo)
Stubble turnips for sheep (kind land will carry stock in winter)
Spring barley
Oats (growing market, able to cope with hungry soils)
Winter barley
Kale? Winter feed crop anyway, either slotted in between winter and spring barley, or something like swedes, as a full crop in the rotation
Spring barley
Sugar/Fodder beet (late lifted given it sounds kind land to maximise yield) Either for feed or factory
Spring barley
Spring barley
Beans

If theres fym available, then pre roots is where I'd put it.

Hope thats some help

Spud

Thanks for your reply, exceptionally helpful!
The assignment is based upon an actual field on the Harper Adams farm, where its a deep sandy loam soil.
The field gently slopes and so soil erosion is an issue.
low blackgrass pressure, however lots of nettles and speedwell, so controlling this would need to be tackled.
FYM is available.
I've noticed a distinct lack of wheat in your rotation, may i ask why? Also, lots of spring barley too, surely winter crops yield better so should be introduced more if possible?
Many aspects to a rotation, difficult to address all!
Kind regards,
JC

 

[Flat 10]

I think students should write their own dissertations; discuss.

 

[JC4]

I think students should write their own dissertations; discuss.

Just trying to get a grip on example rotations, to tailor mine to fit the specific field needs.

 

[Spud]

Thanks for your reply, exceptionally helpful!
The assignment is based upon an actual field on the Harper Adams farm, where its a deep sandy loam soil.
The field gently slopes and so soil erosion is an issue.
low blackgrass pressure, however lots of nettles and speedwell, so controlling this would need to be tackled.
FYM is available.
I've noticed a distinct lack of wheat in your rotation, may i ask why? Also, lots of spring barley too, surely winter crops yield better so should be introduced more if possible?
Many aspects to a rotation, difficult to address all!
Kind regards,
JC

You said shallow sandy soil in the op, now you say deep soil? Which is it?
Wheat not as successful on shallow sand as deeper bodied land ime
Re spring crops - look at the rotation margin, not individual crops : Sugar beet can put as much as 10t/ac on between October and January, adding £200+ to the gm. A mauled in wheat in november wont make as much as a good spring barley sown after beet in March, and cost a lot less to grow.
Need more details re livestock and fym amounts too

Please be consistent in your wishes, partic re soil type - eg a deep loam will grow spuds and wheat, a shallow sand will not.

 

[Flat 10]

Id probably do the same in your shoes it's just there seems to be more and more on here asking questions that they ought to be working out for themselves. Good luck with your project.

 

[JC4]

You said shallow sandy soil in the op, now you say deep soil? Which is it?
Wheat not as successful on shallow sand as deeper bodied land ime
Re spring crops - look at the rotation margin, not individual crops : Sugar beet can put as much as 10t/ac on between October and January, adding £200+ to the gm. A mauled in wheat in november wont make as much as a good spring barley sown after beet in March, and cost a lot less to grow.
Need more details re livestock and fym amounts too

Please be consistent in your wishes, partic re soil type - eg a deep loam will grow spuds and wheat, a shallow sand will not.

Sorry, i've got two assignments going on, this one is a deep sandy loam soil - thats definite this time!
Sugar beet not much of an option as the Harper farm is in Shropshire, but fodder beet may have the same benefits as feed value to livestock?
Specific livestock values aren't given, however there are sheep that could be used for grazing, and beef and dairy on the farm too which could be used to grow feed for / FYM taken out again.
Your help is gratefully appreciated, thank you!
Are you a farmer? what is your rotation?

 

[JC4]

Id probably do the same in your shoes it's just there seems to be more and more on here asking questions that they ought to be working out for themselves. Good luck with your project.

A bit cheeky i know!

 

[DRC]

I farm in Shropshire, and know the Newport land (my son left Harper 3 yrs ago).
It's good potato ground, so i'd go with,
Potatoes
Wheat
Winter barley
Stubble turnips- catch crop sown after barley in august for sheep feed.
Maize- feed for the dairy herd
Westerwold grass- sown after maize to mop up nutrients and prevent soil erosion- graze sheep late winter, then silage for cows
wheat
spring barley
potatoes
And repeat.
You could fit in beans, or ant legumes if you wanted.

 

[Jetemp]

I'd be looking at using cover crops to try and I'm prove fertility and reduce erosion over winter, you could grow beet if the economics stacked up for the ad plant at Harper if it's still running. Double cropping with stubble turnips etc, to finish lambs on after after an early combinable crop before either a spring root or cereal crop. Although erosion could be an issue here?

 

[turbo]

osr fallowed by 2 wheats then w barley and back to osr,not fashionable on here but its an option or go
wheat
maize
wheat
potatoes
wheat
osr
then back to wheat and start again

 

[Spud]

Sorry, i've got two assignments going on, this one is a deep sandy loam soil - thats definite this time!
Sugar beet not much of an option as the Harper farm is in Shropshire, but fodder beet may have the same benefits as feed value to livestock?
Specific livestock values aren't given, however there are sheep that could be used for grazing, and beef and dairy on the farm too which could be used to grow feed for / FYM taken out again.
Your help is gratefully appreciated, thank you!
Are you a farmer? what is your rotation?

Dont discount sugar beet completely if historic yields were good back in the Alscott factory days, Newport is no further from Newark than we are here, and it works for us. That said, with cattle on the farm, fodder beet probably makes more sense.

Yes I am a farmer!

Heavy land rotation here

Wheat, Wheat, Winter beans, wheat, wheat, Spring oats. Mostly to fight grassweeds, maximise straw, remain sustainable, and hopefully make a profit! Muck pre cover crop pre s oats. Direct drilled break crops and covers.

Lighter land: Potatoes, wheat, winter barley, spring barley, ow stubble, sugar beet, sp barley, w barley, w barley back to spuds. This is a little bit flexible, in practice, the taties are 1 in 6 to 8, beet one in 4. Occasional sp beans due to odd field swaps with a neighbour for beet land where he has a stem nematode problem. Helps stretch our rotation too.

Place locally where we do most of the work is wheat, w barley, spuds, wheat, w barley, sp beans (occasionally sugar beet)

I'd go with @silverfox 's suggestion, though Id maybe slip a cereal in between maize and grass

Good luck

 

[Clive]

I'm doing an assignment as part of my Harper Adams university work where i have to design a 10 year rotation on a shallow, sandy soil.
Any ideas on what you guys are currently planning in terms of your rotations would be very helpful, as im having to think about market pressures, alongside supporting the livestock on the farm, cultivations and soil health.

So any details about your rotations would be greatly appreciated!

Ta,
JC

what a pointless exercise ! a well managed farm would crop according to market and margin and also be using rotation to sort agronomic and weather issues as required .

how can you plan 10 yrs when we have no idea of commodity or input prices more than a year or so ahead at most ?

Then there is fixed cost implications to consider ? potatoes for example provide a good GM but what will it do to your fixed costs ? what if more spring crops and a long harvests spread allow smaller combine and other machinery plus less staff etc ?

Hand in a bit of paper thats says rotation = "opportunistic"

 

[Spud]

what a pointless exercise ! a well managed farm would crop according to market and margin and also be using rotation to sort agronomic and weather issues as required .

Then there is fixed cost implications to consider ? potatoes for example provide a good GM but what will it do to your fixed costs ? what if more spring crops and a long harvests spread allow smaller combine and other machinery plus less staff etc ?

Hand in a bit of paper thats says rotation = "opportunistic"

A little flippant perhaps Clive! I'm sure even you have basic rotational principles that you operate by; if one crop looks particularly in demand/profitable, you dont put the entire farm down to it, do you?
I cant see how running a smaller combine for longer makes much financial sense over the same area, unless the larger machine was previously way over capacity to cut the lot in a very tight window?
Longer harvest ime means later finish = more clash with other work = no staff saving

 

[Clive]

A little flippant perhaps Clive! I'm sure even you have basic rotational principles that you operate by; if one crop looks particularly in demand/profitable, you dont put the entire farm down to it, do you?
I cant see how running a smaller combine for longer makes much financial sense over the same area, unless the larger machine was previously way over capacity to cut the lot in a very tight window?
Longer harvest ime means later finish = more clash with other work = no staff saving

basic principles yes but no rotation, i make my choices based on market and agronomy each year, right now I couldn't even tell you what i will be planting in the spring of 2017 never mind in 10 years time !

I can cover a lot more acres with my combine starting on harvesting a range of crops in July and finishing in October than I could if I grew WW/OSR only and needed every acre cutting in 2 or 3 weeks - my combine cost / acre is therefore lower, same goes for drills and other equipment / infrastructure

spring cropping and a spread of establishment, applications dates means the same amount of staff and equipment can drill, care for and harvest more acres than they could if they grew a very narrow rotation like WW/WW/WOSR etc

 

[Spud]

basic principles yes but no rotation, i make my choices based on market and agronomy each year, right now I couldn't even tell you what i will be planting in the spring of 2017 never mind in 10 years time !

I can cover a lot more acres with my combine starting on harvesting a range of crops in July and finishing in October than I could if I grew WW/OSR only and needed every acre cutting in 2 or 3 weeks - my combine cost / acre is therefore lower, same goes for drills and other equipment / infrastructure

spring cropping and a spread of establishment, applications dates means the same amount of staff and equipment can drill, care for and harvest more acres than they could if they grew a very narrow rotation like WW/WW/WOSR etc

I dont dispute that, partic re the time saved direct drilling.

Could you explain how you will decide what to grow in spring 17 then? Surely you must have some idea, how do you decide which fields to leave for spring cropping otherwise?

 

[Clive]

I dont dispute that, partic re the time saved direct drilling.

Could you explain how you will decide what to grow in spring 17 then? Surely you must have some idea, how do you decide which fields to leave for spring cropping otherwise?

i've got ideas on what various fields would benefit from agronomically yes, but final choice will depend on prices and contracts on offer over the next couple of months plus what weather we get in the spring.

I don't even know if I'm going to grow winter or spring beans yet even for next harvest - that decision will be made based on the weather and ground conditions next month

 

[Barleycorn]

At my age 10 year rotations are a bit ambitious!

 

[ollie989898]

10 year rotation? Can you put a crop of grass in that lasts 4 years, that will solve a heap of problems. You'll make more out of milk than cropping anyways.