420 hour 1394

[Ray]

Anyone thinking of buying the so called 420 hour 1394 featured in this months Classic Tractor mag and due to be sold at Cheffins auction this weekend beware!... I know the tractor as we carried out contracting work for the late Mr Brooke when he farmed here in Yorkshire.

This tractor has done far more hours than stated in Classic Tractor, and has had a new engine fitted due to a rod going through the side of the original block when they used it on the farm. At this stage Mr Brooke sent the tractor for the engine repair along with complete restoration and new hour clock. I saw the tractor upon its return and although it had been restored well, it wasn't concourse.

I reckon the front tyres it has will be the originals!... It's a joke to think someone would go to the trouble of fitting worn tyres to save the new ones and risking damage to the original paintwork, then somehow losing the tyres when flitting to another farm...

 

[Deereone]

Trigger's broom then?

 

[Ray]

Trigger's broom then?

Would seem so... It certainly isn't how its portrayed in the mag with just 420 hours. These reporters should have a bit more about them if you ask me before publishing such sh!te and getting peoples hopes up buying a genuine low hour tractor... Someone may well get their leg lifted good and propa this weekend!

 

[nick...]

Over to you @rorsday
Nick...

 

[Dealer]

You should advise cheffins of your knowledge

False advertising by the seller is illegal never mind dishonest

 

[Exfarmer]

Anyone thinking of buying the so called 420 hour 1394 featured in this months Classic Tractor mag and due to be sold at Cheffins auction this weekend beware!... I know the tractor as we carried out contracting work for the late Mr Brooke when he farmed here in Yorkshire.

This tractor has done far more hours than stated in Classic Tractor, and has had a new engine fitted due to a rod going through the side of the original block when they used it on the farm. At this stage Mr Brooke sent the tractor for the engine repair along with complete restoration and new hour clock. I saw the tractor upon its return and although it had been restored well, it wasn't concourse.

I reckon the front tyres it has will be the originals!... It's a joke to think someone would go to the trouble of fitting worn tyres to save the new ones and risking damage to the original paintwork, then somehow losing the tyres when flitting to another farm...

These are very serious allegations and as dealer says let Cheffins know of your concerns
you can contact them at :- [email protected]
or better phone them 01223 213777

 

[Ray]

It's Classic Tractor that have published the article on this tractor for all to see and read, and up to them to decide what to do, I'm just saying what myself and other locals know and genuinely believe of it as I knew Mr Brooke many years. If others wish to believe a different story then that's up to them.

Personally like many other people I've been around tractors long enough to know a genuine 420 hour tractor when I'm standing in front of it. It's my opinion that when a reporter for a mag goes and views such tractors he should know what he's looking for, otherwise he's in the wrong job. A tractor with worn front tyres that's said to have just 420 hours would certainly set alarm bells ringing in my head, and I'd need to be certain of all facts before publishing.

I have a few fully restored tractors here, what's saying I go get some low hour clocks fitted, go throw a bit of dust over them, get Classic Tractor to do a feature on them and sell them at Cheffins as genuine low hour barn stored tractors!.. Anyone could do it...It seems you can even have folk believing worn tyres have been fitted as to preserve the originals... and then just lose them somewhere...

 

[msheep66]

I must admit when I read the article it sounded a bit odd when they said they had lost the original tyres.

 

[Dealer]

It's Classic Tractor that have published the article on this tractor for all to see and read, and up to them to decide what to do, I'm just saying what myself and other locals know and genuinely believe of it as I knew Mr Brooke many years. If others wish to believe a different story then that's up to them.

Personally like many other people I've been around tractors long enough to know a genuine 420 hour tractor when I'm standing in front of it. It's my opinion that when a reporter for a mag goes and views such tractors he should know what he's looking for, otherwise he's in the wrong job. A tractor with worn front tyres that's said to have just 420 hours would certainly set alarm bells ringing in my head, and I'd need to be certain of all facts before publishing.

I have a few fully restored tractors here, what's saying I go get some low hour clocks fitted, go throw a bit of dust over them, get Classic Tractor to do a feature on them and sell them at Cheffins as genuine low hour barn stored tractors!.. Anyone could do it...It seems you can even have folk believing worn tyres have been fitted as to preserve the originals... and then just lose them somewhere...

The magazine as published what it has been told

you have information that you dispute what has been written

Cheffins have published a sales description along the same lines

If I had your knowledge I would certainly let the auctioneer know and let them decide how to go forward you have publicly made a statement that the vendor is not describing the goods as the truth or at worst seeking to deceive the purchaser to gain a higher price.. (breaking the law) and you are indirectly helping the seller in this.

enclosed below the sales details taken from Cheffins website 3 minutes ago...

Lot 3435 - c.1985 CASE 1394 Hydra-Shift 4cylinder diesel TRACTOR Consig..

Details: c.1985 CASE 1394 Hydra-Shift 4cylinder diesel TRACTOR Consigned from athe estate if the late Gordon Brooke, this very original 1394 is showing just 420 hours. Introduced by Case in 1983 the 1394 boasts a 72hp engine with turbo and replaced the non-turbo 1390. This Meltham built tractor was purchased new by Gordan Brooke who had moved to the borders from Yorkshire and sadly purchased the tractor on the same day his best friend died. Due to the emotional attachment to the tractor it was used very little and mainly for light duties. Close inspection will show that the front tyres have low tread and have been changed, this was due to Mr Brookes intention to preserve the original tyres, but unfortunately they didn't make the journey north. The rear tyres and the rest of the tractor are original and bear the usual imperfections in the cab and on the bodywork a 30 year static exhibit you would expect to find. Fitted with front weights and puh this tractor is a must for the serious classic tractor collector. This tractor recently featured in the May 2016 Classic Tractor magazine article 'Dusty Delight' pages 132-133.

 

[Ray]

Well what I've said is true and there are plenty of folk around here know this too. I was told by My Brooke the tractor was sent to a guy called Albert Hurst from Huddersfield. He had carried out the engine repair along with the restoration.

It really matters not to me what happens here because I certainly won't be buying it, but I just felt people should know the truth. If people are there at the auction then they can make their mind up upon viewing. Sadly a phone bidder can not and will probably bid on what they've been told.

I don't know the true hours it's covered but I'm sure it's not 420 when it's had a new engine along with restoration and repaint.

As for the tyres.. Well I know about them and have tried to say but let others make up their own mind.

I have informed Cheffins of this information.

 

[Dealer]

Well done

Your information will be of great importance to the future owner as its the real history of the machine, it will of course affect the resale value but not the tractor as it stands now.

I had also informed Cheffins to the existence of this thread as I thought they ought to know before the sale, as I hope that others would have done in the same circumstances.

People who have read this can purchase with a peace of mind now with your input.

 

[Selectamatic]

The 'Case' Decal on the bonnet looks like a repro. Look how the red lines do not but up all the way to the letters...

Still looks tidy though, but if its not what it's advertised as, that's naughty.

 

[Ray]

I'm not saying this tractor won't hold pride and place in any collection because it most certainly will, but it's not a 420 hour genuine barn find tractor that some people may well believe.

 

[wasted years]

Read the description 'very original' not is original and 'showing 420 hours' does not mean only done 420 hours.

 

[Dealer]

The inference of the magazine write up and the description leads to believe it has only done 420 hrs and that's what they are selling..

it does not state that it is not original though and that's more important.

I am not saying the tractors bad just saying history and provenance are part of any purchase price and if there is reason to doubt it any potential purchaser has the rite to know about it.

I believe the auctioneer is aware of this thread and the information as above and will make there own judgement on how its sold..

 

[rorsday]

I have just been made aware of this thread. Let me firstly respond to Ray's comments. Everything we publish in Classic Tractor is in good faith. It is not made up, exaggerated or embellished. There is absolutely no reason for us to do this, nor any benefit. We are here to help, inform and entertain our readers, not 'lift their leg'. The tone of your post seems to suggest that there is some kind of ulterior motive behind all of this? In fact, you accuse us of 'publishing sh**te'.

The facts behind our article on this tractor are thus. As soon as we became aware of its existence we followed it up and arranged a visit to see the tractor in situ. It sounded interesting and a good talking point. Mr Brooke is now deceased and the tractor is now owned by his executors, who perhaps understandably know very little of its history. Like any good journalist with over 40 years of experience under his belt (although you would suggest he has been in the wrong job for 40 years), Classic Tractor's assistant editor, who put together the story, went to great lengths to track down someone who did know something of its history (a former employee of Mr Brooke), and that helped to fill in some of the gaps.

The fact that it was covered in a thick layer of dust may have disguised the fact that it had been repainted in the past. I understand it had been standing in a shed near a corn dryer. Other aspects of the tractor, including its tidy cab interior and original Kleber rear tyres, seemed consistent with a tractor that had done very low hours. The tyres on the front are Alliance...surely Case would have fitted the same brand front and rear, like most other manufacturers of the time?

As 'Dealer' has said, we published what we were told.

Whatever the outcome, I would like to make it clear that it was not our intention to mislead anyone because that has no benefit to Classic Tractor and certainly not its readers.

R Day, Editor, Classic Tractor

 

[Ray]

@rorsday I can assure you there is no ulterior motive behind my comments and I thought long and hard before opening up over all this. The fact is I just couldn't bare to think some internet or phone bidder could buy this tractor from the comments of CT alone and end up very disappointed after their purchase. Maybe in hindsight I should have spoken to someone in your team first and let you decide what to do.

As for the comment I made regarding the quality of publishing, it just annoyed me to think a professional reporter couldn't see the tractor had been repainted etc. I saw the tractor when it returned to Linton Farm and I remember there being tell tale signs of the cosmetic work that had been carried out. I personally thought at the time it wasn't the best of restorations, but was good. IIRC there were certain items of in cab cladding replaced and some not which should be evident whether covered in dust or not.

I'm sorry if you've taken offence by my comments, but I do feel the repairs to this tractor were obvious to someone who knew what they were looking for... They certainly were to me.

 

[rorsday]

Ray, you were 100% right to raise this issue if you believe the tractor is not genuine for some reason. We would also not wish for someone to buy it under false pretences.

You are perhaps missing the point that this tractor was covered in a very thick layer of dust, inside and out, when we viewed it, and furthermore if refurb work had been done, this had taken place several years ago and has since mellowed. It may well look completely different once it has been washed, but we did not have the benefit of seeing it in this condition. I have reviewed the pictures again and the condition looks consistent and 'believable' with the story we were told.

What I do take exception to is your continued inference that our assistant editor is some kind of amateur, which is rather disingenuous as he has been in the industry for almost 40 years.

R Day

 

[Ray]

Yes I agree it may well have mellowed, it must be some 10-15 years since the work was carried out now. As the engine was replaced I'm sure there will be a serial number change to what's on the original V5 to prove what I say. And then the tyres?.. Why would someone wish to fit old tyres and risk damage to the original paintwork just to preserve them and then lose them??.. And what about preserving the rear tyres?.. If I was doing research this would set alarm bells ringing and have me thinking somewhat... Anyway enough said here, like I say it will no doubt be a tractor to be proud of for the new owner but not a genuine 420 hour find IMHO. I do not wish to distract bidding for interested buyers and I hope it sells well, but just wanted to make people aware of what they're buying.

 

[Chuckie]

original Kleber rear tyres,

Are you certain that those are original? They look like the newer style to me that were around in the 1990's, not the straight bar earlier type.

It would be a 30 second job to check the date codes that will be stamped on them??

Also as @Selectamatic says the case lettering is wrong on the bonnet. The letters are too far apart.......

Where is @John 1594 when you need him!