SilliamWhale
Member
Ouch!
750a poor crops
- Thread starter willy
- Start date
- Location
- Ashford, Kent
Chill out, put your toys back in your pram. The point of this whole discussion which is what we got to before is that the problem is not normally the drill. Just because tony Reynolds struggles on heavy ground does not mean it can not be done.
SilliamWhale
Member
@willy - why do you reckon this reynolds chap is doing such a bad job?
Is the land poor? Are there any worms? Is all the straw baled? Is it compacted? does it flood? is the rotation WW/OSR or something? is there no p and k? etc. Is it established late?
I think on land that is consistently performing badly I always think it would be interesting to take it out of production for a year and see how intensive cover cropping and compost helps before going into an early drilled crop of wheat, sometimes land in monoculture needs a good old kickstart and I think we can forget that sometimes ie that the system relies on a better soil biology so we need to build that up too.
hypothetically if you went in with your Claydon do you think the establishment would be better?
Is the land poor? Are there any worms? Is all the straw baled? Is it compacted? does it flood? is the rotation WW/OSR or something? is there no p and k? etc. Is it established late?
I think on land that is consistently performing badly I always think it would be interesting to take it out of production for a year and see how intensive cover cropping and compost helps before going into an early drilled crop of wheat, sometimes land in monoculture needs a good old kickstart and I think we can forget that sometimes ie that the system relies on a better soil biology so we need to build that up too.
hypothetically if you went in with your Claydon do you think the establishment would be better?
Yes the land is not easy but is is very productive, I would say yes the claydon would give far more consistent crops. But the biggest problem with tony is that he's right all the time. And he's is the same as Andy a bit narrow minded.
SilliamWhale
Member
Ouch again!
- Location
- Ashford, Kent
You must be narrow minded too! Willy you obviously know nothing about me so easy on the insults. I have a jd and now a simtech and a claydon that I am trying to sell. Not quite sure how that makes me narrow minded. Are you annoyed because I have found the 750a yields better than the claydon and that goes against your view? The person I know in the UK doing no-till the longest is Simon chiles and he has heavy ground and a 750a!
shakerator
Member
- Location
- LINCS
Following this thread my conc:
If your making it work it seems the best plan is to keep your head down and zip it and quietly outcompete your peers.
Very easy to insult someone online, a bit harder at a BASE meeting
If your making it work it seems the best plan is to keep your head down and zip it and quietly outcompete your peers.
Very easy to insult someone online, a bit harder at a BASE meeting
SilliamWhale
Member
Well not totally if you zip it we wouldn't have a forum!
Look I'm just winding you 750 boys up because you look down at tine drills for not being no till. I like the 750a but crops just don't seem to be that consistent of what I see compared to the tine drills .
I will quite happily come to a base meeting and speak my mind.
I will quite happily come to a base meeting and speak my mind.
SilliamWhale
Member
I'm not wound up. Dont care what drill anyone has. It just depend what you're trying to achieve really. Some like low disturbance some don't mind some want low HP some don't mind some want fert some don't care.
Consistency comes from user skills more than drill I think. I could cock up or have a storming success with a range of drills but it would be down to me and me alone because I'd be the operator.
whats your view of the simtech compared to the other two, having hired one I think in the long term it would be a good compromise in that it moves less soil than the claydon which helps weed control but gives the seed a bit of help from more soil round it
- Location
- Ashford, Kent
Not done enough yet. Disappointed with the amount of soil movement. Far too much. It will replace the claydon as the back up but 750a will do most. Claydon has become obsolete here. The leading tine can do more damage than good, especially on heavy ground. I think the leading tine leads to soil slumping in the strip and leading to less air around the roots. This is why I think in our wheat trials the claydon yielded 1t/ha less. Could see the difference to the line.
Back to the simtech, it is a good simple drill and we will see.
warksfarmer
Member
If you are on a free-draining soil or you are lucky enough to have a dry year then a disc drill works well. However conditions have changed over the last decade and now we get these extreme rainfall conditions I am afraid it just does not work well on over 50% of our soils, especially those with a high silt content...no matter what... they slump...the clays and the sands - like Clives are easier to deal with. So it might seem like a backward step but we are going to try a McConnel Seederator, a Sumo DTS and any other strip till machine that might be available in our area... because we have got to add a bit of air to some of our soils to get a decent crop. I know 2012/13/14 have been exceptional but it is the situation we have to live with and I cannot go on for ever believing that I am going to create the perfect soil. So I am looking to purchase a 3 meter strip tiller which I can use when I need to move some soil and then when conditions are right we can use the (Kuhn) disc drill. I am afraid I cannot be doing with all the evangelical No-Till doctrine as it only really works if you have a consistent soil type and a predictable climate (usually with extremes of temperature) I have proved to myself it does not produce a positive financial return year upon year.. You have to be flexible so I am afraid to say we will be adding a tined drill to our armoury.
Jim,
What about using the Kuhn for everything but investing in something like a Mzuri Rehab or Sumo GLS which is effectively the front end of all these strip till drills to use behind the combine to get the air into the soil, then min disturbance drilling with the Kuhn so your not germinating any weeds at drilling? @Jim Bullock
why does everyone think that soil has no air in it unless a dam great tine rips through it first ??
its a myth ! if your soil had no air your worms would suffocate
cultivation creates a need to cultivate - its a catch 22 hamster wheel and there are other ways
its a myth ! if your soil had no air your worms would suffocate
cultivation creates a need to cultivate - its a catch 22 hamster wheel and there are other ways
warksfarmer
Member
Because yields drop, feels lifeless, doesn't crack in dry summers, goes sad etc etc.
If all no tilled soils had lots of air in them, then the grassland boys would not be aerating using min disturbance equipment.
SilliamWhale
Member
Prove that it makes a difference. It may feel right but no proof on yield of grass
warksfarmer
Member
I proved it on one of our fields that was dd'ed for 9 years where the yields just dropped drastically on all the crops that were grown over the period (winter wheat, w beans, w barley, osr, s beans). The order of the rotation was probably not right and cover crops were not used but the soil was not moved other than by the various drills used.
And what I find interesting is that Jim B has been direct drilling for over 20 years, so he knows what works for his soils and he has far far more experience than anybody else on the subject.
Many no-tillers in the states have resorted to a year of cultivation to open their soils up as well.
And as has been said many many times if no till was the answer then the whole world would be doing it across every single acre. People are using it as part of a system and not the only solution which is what Jim is saying so if he can open his soils up for osr and beans then it will only benefit his soils.
Do you really think that there is no air in a soil that has living creatures and worms in it ? Grass grows fine on my lawn and has never been aerated
There is plenty of air in all but the very worst capped or compacted soils and the more you cultivate the more likely they are to cap and compact which needs more cultivation if you want a quick fix - catch 22 but there are other ways IMO the best way to hold air is via organic matter which also helps avoid the slumping, compacting and capping that cultivation can often create
Jim is a very skilled and experienced zero-tiller, min tiller and even plough man, he hasn't run one system on his farm for 20 years, if you want an example of someone who has pleases go see @Simon Chiles and that's on some of the most difficult soils I have ever seen anywhere
Last edited:
SilliamWhale
Member
My point was how does anything ever grow at all if you need constant subsoiling to make things grow. You don't! Some no tillers have cultivated again and some haven't in the states - it doesn't really demonstrate anything to me apart from its personal choice.
I wouldn't call Jim a no tiller really, he does a mix of things with of min till, plough, shakerating, etc. I'm not saying he's wrong its just not no till/ direct drill, its traditional arable farming using a mix of cultivation tools and sometimes one pass drilling. Personal choice again, its not good or bad its just you need to compare like with like.
No one is saying its the answer to the whole world - some people haven't got the interest, the mindset or the equipment to do it. Its not a problem but its natural that on a direct drilling forum people will want to talk about it postively in terms of making it function best.