A certain trailer pass scheme

[deleted user 436632456]

I get what they set up to do, and what the wanted to achieve, but again, like a lot of these things, they have got lost along the way.

There were a few posts on Instagram like "Farmers are reminded to seek professional help & not make unqualified farm repairs", Does that mean that an 18 year old apprentice in one of the approved test centres is a "professional" and the farmer with 20+ years of mechanical knowledge, is unqualified? (Yes, it could very well be a very seasoned qualified mechanic that carries out the inspection).

Apparently 95% of trailers that where presented to an approved test centre, failed on at least 3 points! (A shocking statistic if true) but did the approved centre, carry out the additional works? Was the customer given the option of carrying out the works elsewhere or at home by themselves?

Another post "Don't let anyone tell you that its unnecessary to remove the wheels".. Really?? What about a brake test before removing the wheels?? Is a brake test carried out after they remove the wheels and fit new brakes??

Just my 2p's worth, I just don't like schemes that question peoples intelligence.

 

[7610 super q]

I think a mandatory MOT scheme will be inevitable given the clownsmanship seen on social media with 50k + tractors + 20 t + trailers causing havoc about the countryside. Tractors for fields, lorries for roads, Weeks 3 ton trailers and Ford 4000's for proper farmers.

 

[Exfarmer]

I think a mandatory MOT scheme will be inevitable given the clownsmanship seen on social media with 50k + tractors + 20 t + trailers causing havoc about the countryside. Tractors for fields, lorries for roads, Weeks 3 ton trailers and Ford 4000's for proper farmers.

The trouble is most of the clowns are often driving brand new kit

 

[Ivorbiggun]

Drivers and vehicles should have exactly the same laws as an hgv.

 

[Andrew]

The HGV Guide to Roadworthiness is now recommending (unladen) voluntary brake tests every inspection, with 2-4 laden brake tests throughout the year, as well as at annual test.

They are also pushing for brake testing after any maintenance work on the brakes as a lot of accidents have been caused by incorrect maintenance causing brake failure.

I for one would not want to defend a maintenance system for safety that involves taking it all to bits, having a look, and putting it back together, adjusting as necessary, the the HGV guide says this is exactly what SHOULDN’T be done.

What makes it worse is there is no type approval needed for ag trailers, some new trailers are incapable of meeting the legal requirements for braking without a complete new braking system (Scarlett Research - independent report). So to say a trailer is safe as the brakes are adjusted, when it is still potentially illegal, is a bit iffy.

The scheme is a good idea, but it needs backing up by a brake test, either decelerometer or rolling road. Having said that, any competent mechanic should be able to do what the scheme does, as the brake test would highlight any errors.

 

[deleted user 436632456]

IMO, as involved in the HGV world, the 6-12 week safety checks (depending on miles, age, conditions etc) does far more for road safety than the annual PSV ever does, I suppose that is why timed safety checks are in place.

There is no question that scheduled safety checks on agri trailers by a competent person would dramatically improve safety on the roads (Should be doing it anyway as per PUWER)

 

[Cowabunga]

The only reason you are seeing more trailers tip over these days is because social media and camera-phones didn't used to exist.
Back in the 1960's and 60's we had trailers that tipped over almost if you breather to hard on them. It would be an unusual cut of silage if we didn't have at least two trailer over-turns. Since going to eight ton, then ten and now 12 ton trailers, we have not had a single overturn in the last 35 years. Not one. We get contractors in for some cuts with 50k tractors and 18 ton trailers and not a peep of an accident despite making five times as much silage with ten times as much road work as used to be the case way back when.

It is not the kit that causes accidents. 99 times out of 100 it is the driver of the tractor or the driver of a car. My contractor had an idiot overtake him as he was turning despite having huge high and low level LED indicator lights on the trailer and, witnesses agree, giving plenty of warning of the turn. 100% the car driver's fault and all agreed. Yet a year on, the car driver's insurance has not paid out and is contesting. The car driver has died of unrelated causes in the meantime, which maybe doesn't help. [He had cancer].

 

[Andrew]

This is the report I was referring to.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr697.pdf

Read page 68 onwards.A fairly standard 14t trailer of the type that is fairly common on farms. Old but serviceable and in good condition. After a professional brake overhaul the efficiency was 15%, the legal required is 25%. But as far as I’m aware this trailer would have no reason to fail an inspection, which lasts for 12 months.

In the recommendations, to be legal on the road, the brake actuators and adjusters would have to be replaced with larger units. It also recommends six monthly inspections and overhauls, due to the inadequately sized foundation brakes causing a high amount of wear.

 

[Cowabunga]

This is the report I was referring to.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr697.pdf

Read page 68 onwards.A fairly standard 14t trailer of the type that is fairly common on farms. Old but serviceable and in good condition. After a professional brake overhaul the efficiency was 15%, the legal required is 25%. But as far as I’m aware this trailer would have no reason to fail an inspection, which lasts for 12 months.

In the recommendations, to be legal on the road, the brake actuators and adjusters would have to be replaced with larger units. It also recommends six monthly inspections and overhauls, due to the inadequately sized foundation brakes causing a high amount of wear.

How many tractor and trailer accidents are caused by inadequate brakes? I surmise that very few indeed are. They are just making more jobs for the boys on the back of spurious Elf and Safety claims.

 

[Andrew]

How many tractor and trailer accidents are caused by inadequate brakes? I surmise that very few indeed are. They are just making more jobs for the boys on the back of spurious Elf and Safety claims.

Probably not as many as caused by driver error, but efficient braking is still a legal requirement.
I think this thread was not about accidents, rollovers etc, rather focusing on spurious claims or comments by schemes in general.

 

[Gulli]

How many tractor and trailer accidents are caused by inadequate brakes? I surmise that very few indeed are. They are just making more jobs for the boys on the back of spurious Elf and Safety claims.

Bad brakes on a trailer are one of my most hated things, some of them snap on and lock all the wheels up and some of them don't come on at all, and frankly both are dangerous depending on the conditions.

Although I agree that probably not many accidents are caused by sh!t brakes, but then I don't know any statistics on tractor trailer accidents

 

[Cowabunga]

Bad brakes on a trailer are one of my most hated things, some of them snap on and lock all the wheels up and some of them don't come on at all, and frankly both are dangerous depending on the conditions.

Although I agree that probably not many accidents are caused by sh!t brakes, but then I don't know any statistics on tractor trailer accidents

That's because they are relatively rare these days. It may look different for us that use social media, but that is international not just national and I have yet to see one fairly obviously caused by poor trailer brakes. Most seem to be caused by reckless driving and entering corners and roundabouts at inappropriate speed. Driver error in other words.

 

[Exfarmer]

How many tractor and trailer accidents are caused by inadequate brakes? I surmise that very few indeed are. They are just making more jobs for the boys on the back of spurious Elf and Safety claims.

Certainly the one near Cambridge, involving a large farming co. Was to do with poor maintenance and sadly the driver died

 

[Cowabunga]

Certainly the one near Cambridge, involving a large farming co. Was to do with poor maintenance and sadly the driver died

Was that not the one with the young inexperienced driver speeding down hill to a roundabout or am I thinking of another? Whenever there is a fatality, elf and safety want to blame and prosecute someone other than the deceased whether the deceased was partly or wholly to blame or not. The buck stops with the owner and employer.
Far too many employers are blazé about this and their responsibility both to train, maintain and evaluate the capability of an employee to do the job. Far and away too many employers are themselves inadequate and also thus often employ absolutely clueless muppets to do potentially dangerous jobs, including but not exclusively driving tractors at speed. This is no reflection on your example, just the way it is. Having numpties run kit, any kit and at every level from the owner/manager to the operators, is the major problem which drills down to neither recognising danger points that may or may not be a requirement, to maintain their kit in good order on a daily basis before and during use.

 

[gone up the hill]

Certainly the one near Cambridge, involving a large farming co. Was to do with poor maintenance and sadly the driver died

When did that accident happen?

This trailer scheme, is that the one the NFU are pushing like mad?

All very well saying farm machinery should be inspected every 12 months/ be treated like HGV's, the problem is that who is going to pay all this extra costs?? as there certainly isnt the margin in farming to cover them! even a small/ average size farm could have 10/15 machines that would have to be inspected yearly which could easily cost 10K+ in total even if there isnt much that needs doing!

 

[Farma Parma]

When did that accident happen?

This trailer scheme, is that the one the NFU are pushing like mad?

All very well saying farm machinery should be inspected every 12 months/ be treated like HGV's, the problem is that who is going to pay all this extra costs?? as there certainly isnt the margin in farming to cover them! even a small/ average size farm could have 10/15 machines that would have to be inspected yearly which could easily cost 10K+ in total even if there isnt much that needs doing!

Just hit the nail on the head iam tempted to do some here but all stop without much fuss some are only used for 2months of the year & stored away the rest of year never moved.
too me its just another Leech the industry doesnt need.
I get the whole testing carryon but in order for us all too firstly be able to afford this it has too be applied differently, how i just dont know tho.
I think if you MOT'd Tractors more than half of them would fail a brake test as there just poor full stop. & been like that from New.

 

[Lakesdigger]

Most of the accidents and trailers on their side you see have nothing to do with inadequate or poorly working brakes but a complete lack of use of the brakes. They don't fall over of their own accord.

 

[bobk]

Most of these accidents are driver error , employing them in the first place

 

[gone up the hill]

Just hit the nail on the head iam tempted to do some here but all stop without much fuss some are only used for 2months of the year & stored away the rest of year never moved.
too me its just another Leech the industry doesnt need.
I get the whole testing carryon but in order for us all too firstly be able to afford this it has too be applied differently, how i just dont know tho.
I think if you MOT'd Tractors more than half of them would fail a brake test as there just poor full stop. & been like that from New.

That is the thing, you might only use a machine one week of the year and the rest of the time its parked in the shed, to say that it has to have the wheels off and brakes etc tested every year will cost a small fortune!

HGV's are not the same as farm Tractors/ trailers etc as they are in daily or at least weekly use generally and not only that the cost of the inspections are priced into the daily running costs of the lorry and they price accordingly, farmers cannot do this with farm machines!

 

[Netherfield]

Are there enough facilities to do this brake testing, would you want to travel say 30 miles with every trailer to have the brakes tested? used to have a 3 to 4 hour round trip to get trucks tested, although now there are nearer places they are often very busy I'm told.