A different blackgrass approach

[Flat 10]

We did that but with a second generic flufenacet in the autumn rather than the spring. It's difficult to assess how much difference it actually did.

I thought you did. Shame you didn't leave a tramlines as a trial. My feeling is it might have more benefit in the spring?

 

[turbo]

I think this is legal, but what do people think about a standard pre-em stack eg FFCT + pdm + dff followed by more FFCT in the early spring? I often walk fields late February to see if Atlantis is required, decide no and get a load of late germinators. I'm aware it's only a sticking plaster but it might help.

I Have done it on one block and it's clean,did a headland that I know usually has some,you can see to the Line were the system 50 was applied

 

[Feldspar]

I thought you did. Shame you didn't leave a tramlines as a trial. My feeling is it might have more benefit in the spring?

BG getting through the first autumn pre-em has the potential to produce the most seed heads. If you leave them until the spring I wonder whether they will be getting too big to deal with. Also, leaving too late in the spring will possibly run into more risk of drier soil conditions.

I do wonder whether repeating the same application of the same chemical a short time afterwards will lead to even faster breakdown than for the first application. and there is evidence to support this.

 

[turbo]

BG getting through the first autumn pre-em has the potential to produce the most seed heads. If you leave them until the spring I wonder whether they will be getting too big to deal with. Also, leaving too late in the spring will possibly run into more risk of drier soil conditions.

I do wonder whether repeating the same application of the same chemical a short time afterwards will lead to even faster breakdown than for the first application. and there is evidence to support this.

It's not the autumn ones that got through the pre ems it's spring ones that I am after

 

[Flat 10]

BG getting through the first autumn pre-em has the potential to produce the most seed heads. If you leave them until the spring I wonder whether they will be getting too big to deal with. Also, leaving too late in the spring will possibly run into more risk of drier soil conditions.

I do wonder whether repeating the same application of the same chemical a short time afterwards will lead to even faster breakdown than for the first application. and there is evidence to support this.

I agree, just thought it might be a temporary help. I did say early spring.

 

[e3120]

Apols if this is a daft question, but how do FFCT/DFF/PDM residuals work? Do they prevent an affected seed from germinating for a period, or have they stopped it forever? i.e. is that seed now removed from the viable seed bank, or could it try another day?

 

[turbo]

Apols if this is a daft question, but how do FFCT/DFF/PDM residuals work? Do they prevent an affected seed from germinating for a period, or have they stopped it forever? i.e. is that seed now removed from the viable seed bank, or could it try another day?

To the best of my knowledge it works by killing the plant once it germinates.in a spring like we have just had i think it ran out of steam before the crop could compete with it so that's why a top up has worked so well this year

 

[Gong Farmer]

Don't think anything kills the seed directly, as turbo says it kills the seedling. PDM is absorbed through the shoot but this process can start before that shoot breaks the soil surface.

 

[franklin]

Given that in the fields that didnt get spring Atlantis, I have probably now spent more on BLW sprays, PGRs and patches of wild oats, I may as well just blanket spray Atlantis and have done with it.

 

[Badshot]

Given that in the fields that didnt get spring Atlantis, I have probably now spent more on BLW sprays, PGRs and patches of wild oats, I may as well just blanket spray Atlantis and have done with it.

A mate used pacifica thinking exactly that.
He's had to go back over for wildcats, and blw again. Not very happy.

 

[bovrill]

Given that in the fields that didnt get spring Atlantis, I have probably now spent more on BLW sprays, PGRs and patches of wild oats, I may as well just blanket spray Atlantis and have done with it.

I'd been thinking just that. Looks like I may have saved a fortune on Axial by using the Atlantis!!

 

[franklin]

My main reason for trying to avoid it has always been yield loss. But now with wheat being less frequent in the rotation I am thinking sod it. Still works here, so the plan is to grow wheat maybe one year in five and just go for it.

 

[The_Swede]

A mate used pacifica thinking exactly that.
He's had to go back over for wildcats, and blw again. Not very happy.

Oh yes, seen this a few times. Applied earlier than ideal targeting rapidly tillering BG, has a reasonably narrow BLW spectrum, then later germinating oats from cracks or clods...

 

[rob1]

got a lot of late germinating blw in the bottom again this year, i think its from all the muck we are spreading and not ploughing in

 

[Brisel]

Given that in the fields that didnt get spring Atlantis, I have probably now spent more on BLW sprays, PGRs and patches of wild oats, I may as well just blanket spray Atlantis and have done with it.

I've been trying to preserve Broadway Star for the future but having to go back with Starane XL and Topik for BLW and wild oats, then have quite a bit of brome come to the top of the canopy I will say stuff it next year, blanket treat the WW with Broadway and keep the % of wheat in the rotation to a sustainable level for weed control. 50% spring cropping from now onwards anyway.

 

[Ben M]

Had a good drive around today, surprised to see alot of barley with bg poking out the top now. Also a little farm next to where i use to work use to be bad bg, their fields seemed nice and clean today. Going to have to see whats being done differently!!

 

[tjhooker]

Had a good drive around today, surprised to see alot of barley with bg poking out the top now. Also a little farm next to where i use to work use to be bad bg, their fields seemed nice and clean today. Going to have to see whats being done differently!!

It would be very interesting to hear what they may have done differently!

 

[Doctor who]

Dear Simon
A very insightful post as always.
For sure the BG as having a laugh ATM we are on a tread mill of more & more Chems. It's clear it's not working. We no longer have Gov money in research as we did in the past.
Some interesting work in cover crops at the Frontier trial site, but I have not got my head around the results as yet, will come back on that in another post.
At the present we are scared, I think that's the best word for the next years & we need to look at every angle & do our own research & TFF could be a great help in this.
John.

Have you not visited the Hutchinsons trial site at Brampton this year(I note this comment was pre this years open days) do we/you not value the research and information because it is from a distributor?
This year they clearly talked down the use of endless multiple herbicide stacks and promoted higher seeding rates as required.
Their shallow cultivation systems where clearly working with over 90% fewer plants now pre drilling than in the same field in 2012.
The principles are working for me so why do we need more of our own research when HLH, Agrii and Agrovista are all doing good work, I don't agree with it all but it certainly lays a strong foundation for progress on farm to be made

 

[Banana Bar]

I will eat my shoes if Mulika can do 9-10t in April!

I will eat your socks if above applies

 

[Honest john]

Have you not visited the Hutchinsons trial site at Brampton this year(I note this comment was pre this years open days) do we/you not value the research and information because it is from a distributor?
This year they clearly talked down the use of endless multiple herbicide stacks and promoted higher seeding rates as required.
Their shallow cultivation systems where clearly working with over 90% fewer plants now pre drilling than in the same field in 2012.
The principles are working for me so why do we need more of our own research when HLH, Agrii and Agrovista are all doing good work, I don't agree with it all but it certainly lays a strong foundation for progress on farm to be made

Ok yes the trade do very good work. But they are just messing about with different Chems & Cults. Etc.

It's clear to me the answers are not going to be in a can or bag of Chems.
But maybe from breading wheats that can better compete or fight off grass weeds from the extracts from there roots.
We could have GM now as a short term answer. But long term they will be resistant to Gly, which may or may not be in the market.

Agriculture is too important to man to leave the future in the hands of Agri Bayer etc.

That's not to deminish the good work that Agriavista & others are doing today.