A different blackgrass approach

[bovrill]

Did any one see the swedish drill in the farmers weekly abot 6 weeks ago.

Wide spacing and tben doubles as an inter row harrow. I think it was called something like cameo?

I i thought it was good

Bugger. I stopped getting the yellow peril back in December!

 

[franklin]

In linseed, the BG will merrily grow a foot over the linseed canopy quite readily. My thoughts were based on a weed wiper, but instead of a wide one, some kind of gantry system. It also seems to grow a good height above beet plants.

I've just come out of a 2 year grass ley into wheat and the bg was just as bad as before !

Really? Just as bad? Must admit I was shocked to see the untreated bits in the trials in my field after grass. But in really heavy clay I am convinced the ground opening and cracking does almost as good a job at mixing BG seed through the profile as deep cultivation

My thoughts for the wheat one year in 6 is that, with 2 years of grass, the 4 years of arable allow a whole range of actives to be used at different times. Wheat every other year I dont like as it isnt really a *chemical* break.

 

[cosmagedon]

Look on YouTube for John Pawsey, he's an organic arable farmer with some good videos. He's bought one of those Swedish drills and just put a video up

 

[Andrew K]

Have seen a Garford robo crop hoe working locally that did a fair job on grass weeds .Farmer blocked every other coulter on a rapid 6m and left slightly widened rows in the tractor wheelmarks so 6m hoe man could see where to drive.

 

[bovrill]

Look on YouTube for John Pawsey, he's an organic arable farmer with some good videos. He's bought one of those Swedish drills and just put a video up

Thank-you.
Very interesting, not quite what I'm aiming at, but not far off!

 

[willy]

I tried the inter row Harrow a few years ago, worked quite well. Think I may re try it again

 

[radar]

Did use an Einbock weeder last year, twice in one field at different directions. Did give the barley some stick, but it recovered to give a good yield. Did achieve a good blackgrass kill, but obviously needs the correct weather conditions. The weeder cost the same as an application of Aramo, and in my opion did a better job than the Aramo ever would!

 

[shakerator]

Did use an Einbock weeder last year, twice in one field at different directions. Did give the barley some stick, but it recovered to give a good yield. Did achieve a good blackgrass kill, but obviously needs the correct weather conditions. The weeder cost the same as an application of Aramo, and in my opion did a better job than the Aramo ever would!

Aramo might have given your barley something to think about though....

 

[radar]

Aramo might have given your barley something to think about though....

Should have said the fields had all got 0.3Lt Liberator post drilling and after 6 weeks, the blackgrass population meant that either we did something we knew would definitely reduce the population, or it would mean Roundup. The only downside of not using the Aramo was a fair scattering of wildoats.

 

[franklin]

Aramo

Axial.

 

[radar]

Axial.

Oh yes- Apologies. Must stop posting late/early as brain not working! I now understand Shakerator's post. My point still stands that AXIAL at around £60/ha is expensive when it doesn't work on blackgrass, and the money might be better spent on a cultural control.

 

[franklin]

Axial is post-em to Defy's pre-em.

aka both dear and poor.

 

[D14]

ITs time for a few fresh ideas.

On a mixed soil all arable farm, cultural and chemical controls in WHeat are working, but simply not well enough. Reducing populations from 1500/m2 seedlings pre drilling to just 1 or 2 now sounds good, but with each having 40 tillers, the farm will look shocking in a months time.

So, if it can't be controlled in wheat, why grow wheat?

Which other crops a) can you kill 100% bgeass in or b) it doesn't show and only has a marginal impact on yield.

Beans and rape can use kerb, which does sufficient to leave a population that is not really visible and only reduces yield slightly. Wht else?
Maize? Grass? Spring crops? Miscanrhus? Winter barley?

Time for a non-wheat rotation ?

Here we have made a change because its only just arrived in a few fields so rather than entering the battle ground and ending up loosing when the chemicals all fail we have simply stopped growing wheat and osr which doesn't help in my view. Instead we are putting the fields into permanent spring cropping which this year is linseed but we will change that according to market prices and potential crop profit/loss levels. Any spring crop will be considered even grass and fallow in the armoury along with no till drilling but also shallow tillage to encourage chits in the autumn and winter. We have had a play with cover crops and at the moment not impressed because you clearly need to spend on a mix to beat bg which then affects the next crop gm as you need to allocate the cost somewhere.

I fail to see how you can beat bg when you have wheat or osr in the fields.

 

[SillyPhily]

I'm trying to come up with a mechanical system which will work.
So far my back of an envelope scribbles involve a wide spaced drill, but the seed dropped in rows and covered by following pigtail cultivator tines between the rows, leaving something like a mini potato baulk. This keeps the wheat growing in a dryer bit of soil, and the black grass can germinate in the wet furrow bottoms.
An 8m drill would only need 26ish tines, and would be wide enough to run an 8m inter row harrow and tine cultivator through every few weeks behind a very small and light tractor to chit and destroy blackgrass, and not do too much crop damage.

I plan to knock something sort of half scale up to try this autumn. Pick the wettest ten acres I've got, have a 4m set up behind a Ford 4000 and see what happens!

This guy has one on an organic farm in suffolk
https://www.youtube.com/user/JohnPawseySPF

 

[Beef farmer]

Have a client with a serious problem, we've put the zerotill system in last autumn, and changing the rotation for this coming year.

Wheat, Barley, OSR, Grass, Grass, Winter Beans, Wheat. IF and thats a big IF by the time we've been though barley, rape and one year of hay/grazing grass we've got the blackgrass out we may grass seed the second year it all depends. If not put the cows on it!

That would be so irresponsible I struggle to believe any one would try it. If you do this, please make it known who is selling the seed, so we can all avoid.

 

[billboy 1]

In linseed, the BG will merrily grow a foot over the linseed canopy quite readily. My thoughts were based on a weed wiper, but instead of a wide one, some kind of gantry system. It also seems to grow a good height above beet plants.



Really? Just as bad? Must admit I was shocked to see the untreated bits in the trials in my field after grass. But in really heavy clay I am convinced the ground opening and cracking does almost as good a job at mixing BG seed through the profile as deep cultivation

My thoughts for the wheat one year in 6 is that, with 2 years of grass, the 4 years of arable allow a whole range of actives to be used at different times. Wheat every other year I dont like as it isnt really a *chemical* break.

On the plus side the Pacifica has done a great job and should leave us at rougable levels then going spuds

 

[Breakthru]

Use a Cousins drill for Osr and band spray. Can use top rates including a good water conditioner on the Osr and inter row band spray glyphosate. Follow Clearfields var after conventional and you get lots of chances esp if using Lgp. Need some Calciprill to stop clubroot but other than that is much cheaper to grow with good bgrass control.

 

[tjhooker]

Here we have made a change because its only just arrived in a few fields so rather than entering the battle ground and ending up loosing when the chemicals all fail we have simply stopped growing wheat and osr which doesn't help in my view. Instead we are putting the fields into permanent spring cropping which this year is linseed but we will change that according to market prices and potential crop profit/loss levels. Any spring crop will be considered even grass and fallow in the armoury along with no till drilling but also shallow tillage to encourage chits in the autumn and winter. We have had a play with cover crops and at the moment not impressed because you clearly need to spend on a mix to beat bg which then affects the next crop gm as you need to allocate the cost somewhere.

I fail to see how you can beat bg when you have wheat or osr in the fields.

How do you think the bg arrived?! Are contract balers public enemy no. 1?!

 

[cosmagedon]

Do the organic farms ever get on top of bg?

 

[Ben M]

Do the organic farms ever get on top of bg?

3000ac + organic farm closr to me, with the system camelian drill. They really do have some cracking crops, we can learn so much from the good organic boys