A different blackgrass approach

[Will7]

There are some horror stories starting to emerge above the wheat now when you drive around. Some people will soon have to swallow some pride and admit they are losing the battle.

 

[franklin]

BG is up and flowering really early this year. But that makes it pretty easy to see in the crop now for roguing / spot spraying. Which is good as this year we are all Skyfall and that would be prickly!

 

[yellow belly]

some points to add to brisel post

tillage deeper than 5 cm (2 inches ) is not min till I prefer the term maxi till for discordon, solo type machines
before chemicals ploughing was 5 to 6 inches deep shallower than many so called( min till )maxitill

spring crops planted early will not help my best control from spring crops is when glyphosate is applied in early may learnt with hindsight over the last 25 years the lowest bg fields had late planted spring crops usually because the weather delayed spring drilling

oilseed rape and kerb will control the autumn and winter bg but the few % that germinated in april will seed before preharvest spraying

if using ploughing then a plough with full disc coulters 2 or 3 or more extra furrows at 8 inches at slow speeds ensuring all seed is in the furrow more than 6 inches down not spread along the back of the next furrow (I got into trouble when I first ploughed stubbles because there was a few single bits of straw on the surface at the time a report was published that eyespot could spread from straw on the surface we then started stubble burning before ploughing and then got a spring tine to min till ) never saw bg on the farm then wild oats were the enemy

 

[willy]

Thank you. This is a comprehensive summary of exactly what I've been thinking. However, I am stumped as to what crops and what rotation form the best strategy going forward?

Yes this is what I keep playing about with different rotations and gross margins, at the moment my rotation will be something like this starting this Autumn

Year 1--winter wheat/belepi
Year 2-- s linseed/ s peas
Year3- winter wheat / belepi (on bad black grass)
Year 4-- osr/peas

So basically clean land will have at least one Spring crop in the 4 year rotation, where as dirty land will the option for 3 within the 4 year rotation.

 

[Jack Russell]

In spring that there was very little bg in most of my fields with some a low scattering and some with a higher level. I took the decision then to only do the higher levels with Atlantis/hatra auxiliary mixes. The rest I would accept may look scruffy but it wasn't going to impact on yield and the risk of damage to the crop and following crop from the spring applied Atlantis etc was a worry as well. Now we have hit that horrible time of bg coming above the crop I am still happy with most but there are the inevitable patches which I mis judged or missed. These may get roundup shortly. Most though should be rogue able or spot sprayed by hand. On another unit we look after I sprayed near everything with Atlantis/hatra and the success is very mixed. I remember reading various articles and also I think some posts by @static suggesting only using products in a much longer rotation so as to get good gaps and I think this is what we are seeing. Where it's not been used for a few seasons it is working better. I fell trying to get zero tolerance is fine and the right thing to go for but when faced with a winter that the conditions are perfect for growth but terrible for spraying then I have to accept some degree of failure. We have zero tolerance up to Christmas then reassess. No second cereals so and bg we see in wheat will be on the surface for a while in the next crop so control should be total in the rape which we seem to manage well.

 

[horizontal]

Yes this is what I keep playing about with different rotations and gross margins, at the moment my rotation will be something like this starting this Autumn

Year 1--winter wheat/belepi
Year 2-- s linseed/ s peas
Year3- winter wheat / belepi (on bad black grass)
Year 4-- osr/peas

So basically clean land will have at least one Spring crop in the 4 year rotation, where as dirty land will the option for 3 within the 4 year rotation.

Like your idea - only question is do you think 1 in 4 for peas is a bit tight? Or maybe I've misread what you mean. It's just I've seen very bad pea wilt and foot rot where peas are grown too tight.

 

[willy]

No I would try not to I have just given my self an alternative to osr if harvest is late, so could possibly change with s oats if needed.

 

[Neddy flanders]

How about heavy land
Yr 1 winter beans
2 spring barley
3 spring linseed
4 winter wheat?

 

[yellow belly]

In spring that there was very little bg in most of my fields with some a low scattering and some with a higher level. I took the decision then to only do the higher levels with Atlantis/hatra auxiliary mixes. The rest I would accept may look scruffy but it wasn't going to impact on yield and the risk of damage to the crop and following crop from the spring applied Atlantis etc was a worry as well. Now we have hit that horrible time of bg coming above the crop I am still happy with most but there are the inevitable patches which I mis judged or missed. These may get roundup shortly. Most though should be rogue able or spot sprayed by hand. On another unit we look after I sprayed near everything with Atlantis/hatra and the success is very mixed. I remember reading various articles and also I think some posts by @static suggesting only using products in a much longer rotation so as to get good gaps and I think this is what we are seeing. Where it's not been used for a few seasons it is working better. I fell trying to get zero tolerance is fine and the right thing to go for but when faced with a winter that the conditions are perfect for growth but terrible for spraying then I have to accept some degree of failure. We have zero tolerance up to Christmas then reassess. No second cereals so and bg we see in wheat will be on the surface for a while in the next crop so control should be total in the rape which we seem to manage well.

I have used hatra on a field that has only had it once before but not for 10 years and it has done 95 plus percent 99 %affected 1% unaffected

if using spring crops do not be tempted to drill early far better to plant later with extra seed unless the land is mostly bg free if you take the hit of a spring crop then plant it early for a 5% higher margin it will cost a lot more when the bg germinates in april after planting
on lighter easy working land then get kitted out to plough properly in the autumn

 

[yellow belly]

How about heavy land
Yr 1 winter beans
2 spring barley
3 spring linseed
4 winter wheat?

I have done spring beans spring barley rape but planted the spring beans 2 weeks too early plant 60 seeds for later beans and 550 seeds for spring barley
when the weather forces later planting the results are much better in terms of black grass control

once the bg is in control early planted wheat with no black grass pays for all the pain and leaves some profit

imho those who fail with spring crops blackgrass control are too impatient to drill in march when prior to april 15 is too wet then the choice is made for you

no till also helps

 

[spikeislander]

Yes this is what I keep playing about with different rotations and gross margins, at the moment my rotation will be something like this starting this Autumn

Year 1--winter wheat/belepi
Year 2-- s linseed/ s peas
Year3- winter wheat / belepi (on bad black grass)
Year 4-- osr/peas

So basically clean land will have at least one Spring crop in the 4 year rotation, where as dirty land will the option for 3 within the 4 year rotation.

Aren't your peas to close?

 

[spikeislander]

Aren't your peas to close?

Sorry just read further replies

 

[willy]

Yed sorry not very clear. Either or and the same with w wheat or belepei

 

[spikeislander]

its a shame you cant though I would love to just grow first wheats and go:
wheat
peas
wheat
osr

 

[willy]

its a shame you cant though I would love to just grow first wheats and go:
wheat
peas
wheat
osr

It sort of is, but I really can't wait to get going properly. Because this year is a bloody mess, Atlantis has done nowt!! The money this year down the drain is woeful. But a new start after harvest

 

[spikeislander]

been through a reasonable amount of customers wheats in the last few weeks, probably 5 different farms and 3 different agronomists which have varied their approaches and gives me a good idea of the different strategies. Tbh honest although we had more than I would have liked last year this year I think we are as clean as we could be, but I have had bg at the top of any decision and maybe it has paid a bit. I must add I am far from spotless and still got a way to go, due to the wet autumn I had to plough more than normal so maybe its a false hope. But the farms I go through who are happy to let the agronomist try and are carrying on with traditional wheat osr wheat osr rotations without addressing the problem are on a one way trip imo.
Theres no real variation in chemical approach, the only ones that stand out are anyone who embaces the bg battle as a multiprong approach i.e chemical, stale seedbeds, delayed drilling, spring crop, rotational ploughing, min disturbance.

 

[willy]

This is my bug, we were clean last year, but with dd I think we have had a dormancy break from previous years.

 

[spikeislander]

It will be interesting to see what system rises to the top, I am sure it will over the years. We are very much plough based but do try and do min till so we keep the ploughed down under for longer. I have a farm I do which is very clean, hes an old chap and just ploughed every year on reasonable land so late drilled to. He had to go into hospital last year so said just get me cropped up which we did, but I must admit I ploughed it again as I couldnt argue that it wasnt working. I min disturbance his osr in and now hes thinking of scratching the top for wheat I think I would just keep ploughing

 

[franklin]

How about heavy land
Yr 1 winter beans
2 spring barley
3 spring linseed
4 winter wheat?

Swap spring barley for spring oats. Grow the oats after the linseed. Plough after oats for wheat.

 

[rob1]

Whats best to follow SB ? Second time i have WW and despite using broiler litter it looks thin ans struggling, it had lots of volunteers in the autumn which the unite seemed to clear our as in march I could see the drill lines clearly but have a lot of barley coming in it now . Thinking two SbThen grass for haylage then wheat, does wheat suffer from aleophathy from the SB