A significant result

[ajd132]

What do peoe think about these Joint venture farming companies. I don't really get them, they all seem to have about 2 or 3 bosses, loads of men, managers, assistant managers. travel miles and miles, farm very averagely then break fall out and break up 5 or 6 years later. I read an article about a big farming company, basically asking for more land. If you go on the website it's no wonder, there was loads of managers, secretaries, etc . It's obvious they can't make money because it's so management heavy. There must have been about 15 employees! They farm about 2300ha which is 1000 more than us, we have me, my father and one self employed person all year. 2 extras at harvest. All our own agronomy, accounts and all office work ourselves. I wonder who makes more money?

 

[Feldspar]

What do peoe think about these Joint venture farming companies. I don't really get them, they all seem to have about 2 or 3 bosses, loads of men, managers, assistant managers. travel miles and miles, farm very averagely then break fall out and break up 5 or 6 years later. I read an article about a big farming company, basically asking for more land. If you go on the website it's no wonder, there was loads of managers, secretaries, etc . It's obvious they can't make money because it's so management heavy. There must have been about 15 employees! They farm about 2300ha which is 1000 more than us, we have me, my father and one self employed person all year. 2 extras at harvest. All our own agronomy, accounts and all office work ourselves. I wonder who makes more money?

That's the thing, a lot of famers want to farm more land, but they aren't prepared to take a back seat and so you have the situation of too many cooks. I think any share ownership is a bad idea because it needlessly creates extra administration. If you look at people like AWT's costs they do look quite good on paper but their administration costs are significant.

I think this is presentation which has some costs attached to it: www.ofc.org.uk/files/ofc/papers/08latham.pdf

 

[ajd132]

That's the thing, a lot of famers want to farm more land, but they aren't prepared to take a back seat and so you have the situation of too many cooks. I think any share ownership is a bad idea because it needlessly creates extra administration. If you look at people like AWT's costs they do look quite good on paper but their administration costs are significant.

I think this is presentation which has some costs attached to it: www.ofc.org.uk/files/ofc/papers/08latham.pdf

Yeh they are an example, I was thinking of a different company further afield when writing the second part of the post. I don't see why anyone would want to travel 50 miles for land, so much wasted time and money.

 

[The Ruminant]

How do you reconcile that with the fact you gained much of your knowledge through the generosity of others'? And also the fact that the bursary you received to do so was given with the explicit condition of sharing that knowledge for wider industry improvement?

I reconcile it by telling myself I've written a detailed report which is available to anyone with an Internet connection, I've travelled across the Midlands, South and East of the country giving talks and presentations (to groups ranging from 9 aged pensioners to several hundred keen farmers, often travelling home late at night and for no pay, and only occasional expenses), I've contributed widely to the mob grazing thread on the old forum and to a lesser extent to the one on this forum, I've hosted a significant(!) number of farm walks for individuals and groups, I've also attended a number of farm walks to support other practitioners and I've answered hundreds of emails from people asking for advice (the last one a few days ago was from a farmer in South Africa!)

It's now coming up for five years since I started my scholarship. It's time to refocus on my business - Its my ambition (and I'm am slowly moving towards) appearing on the self-made thread that's elsewhere on TFF

 

[RTK Farmer]

Some joint ventures work really well. It can enable one "partner" to pursue other interests but still leave a couple of others to share the responsibility and workload enabling either to take some important time off even in the busy season. Something we don't all have the luxury of.

 

[ajd132]

Good point

 

[ajd132]

Think awt are an example of a very successful one compared to some others that have come and gone. Always good crops. Still don't envy the road miles though!

 

[dontknowanything]

I reconcile it by telling myself I've written a detailed report which is available to anyone with an Internet connection, I've travelled across the Midlands, South and East of the country giving talks and presentations (to groups ranging from 9 aged pensioners to several hundred keen farmers, often travelling home late at night and for no pay, and only occasional expenses), I've contributed widely to the mob grazing thread on the old forum and to a lesser extent to the one on this forum, I've hosted a significant(!) number of farm walks for individuals and groups, I've also attended a number of farm walks to support other practitioners and I've answered hundreds of emails from people asking for advice (the last one a few days ago was from a farmer in South Africa!)

It's now coming up for five years since I started my scholarship. It's time to refocus on my business - Its my ambition (and I'm am slowly moving towards) appearing on the self-made thread that's elsewhere on TFF

So you feel you have done your bit, time to batten down the hatches now?

 

[The Ruminant]

So you feel you have done your bit, time to batten down the hatches now?

There comes a time when paying £30 or £40 for a babysitter and then travelling 150 - 200 miles to talk to half a dozen retired NFU Group Secretary / Agric mechanic / farm accountant / hobby farmer / 2 contractors and a young farmer about a subject they have no interest in starts to wear thin.

I'll still talk mob grazing with anyone when asked, just keep my head below the parapet as much as possible.

 

[dontknowanything]

There comes a time when paying £30 or £40 for a babysitter and then travelling 150 - 200 miles to talk to half a dozen retired NFU Group Secretary / Agric mechanic / farm accountant / hobby farmer / 2 contractors and a young farmer about a subject they have no interest in starts to wear thin.

I'll still talk mob grazing with anyone when asked, just keep my head below the parapet as much as possible.

I totally get that.

But the sentiment is very different to your first post which questioned why we share ideas with other farmers (who presumably are interested, otherwise they wouldn't be competition).

 

[SilliamWhale]

There comes a time when paying £30 or £40 for a babysitter and then travelling 150 - 200 miles to talk to half a dozen retired NFU Group Secretary / Agric mechanic / farm accountant / hobby farmer / 2 contractors and a young farmer about a subject they have no interest in starts to wear thin.

I'll still talk mob grazing with anyone when asked, just keep my head below the parapet as much as possible.

We've not heard from you lately. I for one would like to hear how your getting on.

 

[marco]

There comes a time when paying £30 or £40 for a babysitter and then travelling 150 - 200 miles to talk to half a dozen retired NFU Group Secretary / Agric mechanic / farm accountant / hobby farmer / 2 contractors and a young farmer about a subject they have no interest in starts to wear thin.

I'll still talk mob grazing with anyone when asked, just keep my head below the parapet as much as possible.

I'd really like to go over and see your setup some day, your definitely going the right way. I'm a fair few years behind you, but when people like you give updates it gives the rest of us a reason to push on and keep going.

 

[York]

no we never jointly owned any machine, or crop. We operated as completely separate businesses and just had a handshake agreement to do contract work for one another at a rate giving us a 20% margin over cost (which we were transparent with each other about) It works well if you can find someone with similar aims and system to do this with and certainly offers opportunity for increased efficiency
Lee is a long way from next door (think there is 17 miles between us) I don't think distance (within reason) is an issue and it never really caused us problems.
Our arrangement was purposely lose, based on trust and handshakes not land agents agreements with very little need for admin or added complexity etc
I would do it again with the right person where a "fit" existed

every time a contract needs a 2nd page it will not work out.
hand shake contract today are rare. However they can work very well. Even did hand shake contracts on large deals in a high 5 digit numbers and up front money given ;-)
In my business concept there is not room for contracts with more than a handshake and a memo on one page.
York-Th.

 

[Clive]

every time a contract needs a 2nd page it will not work out.
hand shake contract today are rare. However they can work very well. Even did hand shake contracts on large deals in a high 5 digit numbers and up front money given ;-)
In my business concept there is not room for contracts with more than a handshake and a memo on one page.
York-Th.

Someone once told me that the day you have to get a contract out of a file is the day the relationship broke !

 

[farmingfred]

Returning to the OP:
Yesterday we combined 2 neighbouring fields of W Wheat. Both are 8.4ha and were drilled on 16th September after OSR (with very similar history). One drilled with Cross Slot and the other 2x Top Down 1xCarrier then drilled with Kuhn Megant.
Both had the same spray and fertiliser regime and both are steep chalky banks.
Cross Slot drilled field: 95.1 tonnes
Kuhn Megant drilled field: 90.3 tonnes
Very pleased with both fields, obviously. Is this in anyway scientific? No! Is it significant to me? Hugely! I would have been happy with the yields being the same, or even the other way around. Does it prove anything? Maybe/ maybe not, I don't care, it makes me feel even better about my decision to go no till than I did before harvest.

 

[Clive]

Returning to the OP:
Yesterday we combined 2 neighbouring fields of W Wheat. Both are 8.4ha and were drilled on 16th September after OSR (with very similar history). One drilled with Cross Slot and the other 2x Top Down 1xCarrier then drilled with Kuhn Megant.
Both had the same spray and fertiliser regime and both are steep chalky banks.
Cross Slot drilled field: 95.1 tonnes
Kuhn Megant drilled field: 90.3 tonnes
Very pleased with both fields, obviously. Is this in anyway scientific? No! Is it significant to me? Hugely! I would have been happy with the yields being the same, or even the other way around. Does it prove anything? Maybe/ maybe not, I don't care, it makes me feel even better about my decision to go no till than I did before harvest.

imagine how much more you could have got with a 750a

 

[The Ruminant]

imagine how much more you could have got with a 750a

And he's still have an extra £60k in the bank to start with.... [emoji6]

 

[SilliamWhale]

And he's still have an extra £60k in the bank to start with.... [emoji6]

And they're off...

But seriously it proves as does Clive's osr thing that no till is in no way worse than recreational cultivation estavlishment

 

[dontknowanything]

Harvested the second of our no till, wide row wheats last night. I was disappointed with the yield as it's our "best" field. We got 11.7t/ha compared to 12t on the "second best".

However, there were many variables between the two, drilling date different by almost a month, different variety, fields not adjacent (although quite close), different cropping history etc etc.

Glad I had the slightly more scientific test as reported in OP, otherwise I would be worrying about the row spacing. As it is, I'm now thinking about whether we are drilling too early. What is is NIAB TAG say is optimum, October 7th?

 

[Feldspar]

Harvested the second of our no till, wide row wheats last night. I was disappointed with the yield as it's our "best" field. We got 11.7t/ha compared to 12t on the "second best".

However, there were many variables between the two, drilling date different by almost a month, different variety, fields not adjacent (although quite close), different cropping history etc etc.

Glad I had the slightly more scientific test as reported in OP, otherwise I would be worrying about the row spacing. As it is, I'm now thinking about whether we are drilling too early. What is is NIAB TAG say is optimum, October 7th?

Looking at some the variety results this year that difference could be easily attributable to varieties alone.