AB 15 What Does It Achieve?

[Frank-the-Wool]

A nearby farm has a large area (over 200 acres) of poor arable land on light soils.
Logically the Agent has put it all into AB15 which after the wet winter had established well. Blackgrass was not an issue on this land.

The wildlife seemed to have happily populated it and there were Pheasants and other birds had happily nested as there was plenty of cover from predators.

I was extremely surprised to see the whole area topped in the last few days and any Chicks or birds still nesting will have no chance of survival at all.
According to the prescription this will have to be cut again this year but never grazed.

I am missing the logic of this? I see no environmental benefit and little soil improvement!

 

[Wigeon]

A nearby farm has a large area (over 200 acres) of poor arable land on light soils.
Logically the Agent has put it all into AB15 which after the wet winter had established well. Blackgrass was not an issue on this land.

The wildlife seemed to have happily populated it and there were Pheasants and other birds had happily nested as there was plenty of cover from predators.

I was extremely surprised to see the whole area topped in the last few days and any Chicks or birds still nesting will have no chance of survival at all.
According to the prescription this will have to be cut again this year but never grazed.

I am missing the logic of this? I see no environmental benefit and little soil improvement!

It's barking mad. I've got a bit. Stuffed with blackgrass, plus ryegrass in the mix. Needs constant topping, as no grazing or cutting allowed.

 

[delilah]

There is little, if any, public good in any of the arable standards.
They have already acknowledged this by capping several of them, and it wont be many years before most are are binned.
Defra should never have listened to the farmers who kept whispering in their ear that there are 'good' and 'bad' ways of establishing a crop.

 

[andybk]

There is little, if any, public good in any of the arable standards.
They have already acknowledged this by capping several of them, and it wont be many years before most are are binned.
Defra should never have listened to the farmers who kept whispering in their ear that there are 'good' and 'bad' ways of establishing a crop.

should have never listened to the charities and degree holding land agents looking to line their own pockets with as little work as possible . all this land could have allowed a "light touch" grazing , and what a waste of diesel all prob topped with a 150hp tractor ,

 

[delilah]

should have never listened to the charities and degree holding land agents looking to line their own pockets with as little work as possible . all this land could have allowed a "light touch" grazing , and what a waste of diesel all prob topped with a 150hp tractor ,

We have documented evidence that it is farmers fault. I haven't seen anything to suggest it is charities fault.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

NUM3 AB 15
Can be topped to control black grass but not grazed


The purpose of this is to:

• manage nutrient efficiency and improve soil health
• provide food for farmland wildlife, such as pollen and nectar for pollinators and farmland birds
• support an IPM approach by reducing grass weeds and, if located close to cropped areas, encourage natural crop pest predators

 

[Grass And Grain]

A nearby farm has a large area (over 200 acres) of poor arable land on light soils.
Logically the Agent has put it all into AB15 which after the wet winter had established well. Blackgrass was not an issue on this land.

The wildlife seemed to have happily populated it and there were Pheasants and other birds had happily nested as there was plenty of cover from predators.

I was extremely surprised to see the whole area topped in the last few days and any Chicks or birds still nesting will have no chance of survival at all.
According to the prescription this will have to be cut again this year but never grazed.

I am missing the logic of this? I see no environmental benefit and little soil improvement!

I agree, it could be managed in a much better way, but we've got to stick to the rules. We could have more flexibility and be more nature friendly at the same time.

When AB15 is managed as per the DEFRA rules it can cause grass weed proliferation imho.

 

[Grass And Grain]

It does add OM. It does provide nectar and wildlife haven, much more than pure ryegrass. The mowing probably then kills some of the wildlife.

 

[Cowcorn]

A nearby farm has a large area (over 200 acres) of poor arable land on light soils.
Logically the Agent has put it all into AB15 which after the wet winter had established well. Blackgrass was not an issue on this land.

The wildlife seemed to have happily populated it and there were Pheasants and other birds had happily nested as there was plenty of cover from predators.

I was extremely surprised to see the whole area topped in the last few days and any Chicks or birds still nesting will have no chance of survival at all.
According to the prescription this will have to be cut again this year but never grazed.

I am missing the logic of this? I see no environmental benefit and little soil improvement!

Short answer Frank is it puts money in landowners and agents pockets !!
And of course it keeps rents high by setting a base rate ...
Without these handy money schemes the agent would have to either buck up his arable skills or grass it down and find a tenant who knew how to farm ..
My father used to say that there was more bad farmers than bad land and he might have been right

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I think there are plenty of good farmers doing it as well

 

[B R C]

Not sure about public goods but ploughed mine out due to blackgrass, first bit of ploughing for 5 or so years, the wheat following does look good, the clover must help , will see when the combine goes through how good. Overall not that keen on it but better than beans or OSR(bad beetle area) break imo. I only use 100hp on my 4.6m batwing

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

I agree, it could be managed in a much better way, but we've got to stick to the rules. We could have more flexibility and be more nature friendly at the same time.

When AB15 is managed as per the DEFRA rules it can cause grass weed proliferation imho.

You can cut and graze GS4 or whatever the SFI code is for a herbal ley, but for a lower payment.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

You can cut and graze GS4 or whatever the SFI code is for a herbal ley, but for a lower payment.

SAM3
Lot of livestock farmers being going that way before payments

Another worth looking at is SAM 2
Grazable winter cover crop , Turnips Rape and a bit of Ryegrass

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

It does add OM. It does provide nectar and wildlife haven, much more than pure ryegrass. The mowing probably then kills some of the wildlife.

I struggle to see much benefit in either OM and definitely nothing for the wildlife.
Very few plants flowered in this, it was nearly all grass, probably the wet spring reduced the flowering plants and allowed the grasses to dominate.
All of the wildlife that had benefited from the large area of undisturbed area was either wiped out by the mowing or once the cover was gone the birds of prey cleared up the rest.
There is a small amount of logic to not cutting hedges between March and September. Not cutting AB15 between April and late July should be part of the prescription.
If there is Blackgrass then there must be other ways of controlling it other than using this method. It would be better to cut it in sections rather than just mowing 200 acres in a couple of days.

I am just an old fashioned farmer who likes to look after the wildlife if possible!

 

[Grass And Grain]

You can cut and graze GS4 or whatever the SFI code is for a herbal ley, but for a lower payment.

Can probably make up the payment difference by utilising of selling the standing grass/grazing. And more chance of managing it as you wish. Just no experience if the herbs will manage to survive in a silage cutting situation.

Is it a 5 week period you've to leave the SFI equivalent of GS4 for? Can probably farm around that though by rotational grazing or closing up for silage/hay cut.

I struggle to see much benefit in either OM and definitely nothing for the wildlife.
Very few plants flowered in this, it was nearly all grass, probably the wet spring reduced the flowering plants and allowed the grasses to dominate.
All of the wildlife that had benefited from the large area of undisturbed area was either wiped out by the mowing or once the cover was gone the birds of prey cleared up the rest.
There is a small amount of logic to not cutting hedges between March and September. Not cutting AB15 between April and late July should be part of the prescription.
If there is Blackgrass then there must be other ways of controlling it other than using this method. It would be better to cut it in sections rather than just mowing 200 acres in a couple of days.

I am just an old fashioned farmer who likes to look after the wildlife if possible!

I agree, more flexibility on cutting would be better. Or just a completely different set of prescriptions altogether.

We did actually see a benefit last autumn when trying to drill wheat after 2 year legume fallow. Got all those fields drilled. Didn't get the field of second wheat drilled. Soil was just that little but dryer after legume fallow. That said, it wasn't as dry or friable as it would have been after a pure stand of ryegrass.

 

[DrWazzock]

The whole thing is a crock in my view and I won’t be doing any of it. Every arable option has some weasel words that mean you can’t control one weed or another or break the take all or virus bridge. Quite happy to just keep on growing crops and grass. It’s easy and keeps your farm clean.

 

[Grass And Grain]

The whole thing is a crock in my view and I won’t be doing any of it. Every arable option has some weasel words that mean you can’t control one weed or another or break the take all or virus bridge. Quite happy to just keep on growing crops and grass. It’s easy and keeps your farm clean.

We're in year 4 of a mid tier stewardship..reading through SFI'24 there's not too much to get excited about. Changing legume fallow from single year rotational to fixed has made it unattractive. Second year of our AB15 was full of thistles and ragwort (been arable all time I can remember).

Unharvested cereals headlands might be attractive, but only on sand land where we can follow with a spring crop.

Herb rich leys are now fixed non-rotational.

I need a single year OSR alternative which can be terminated mid to end of August, but they don't seem to have much to offer me.

Not sure I can be bothered with the management plans etc.

 

[yellow belly]

if you dont like it and cannot make it work why apply for it

imho 1 year is a complete waist of seed and time 2 years produces a good 2 year break for wheat
the non grass mixtures are much better than ones with grass seeds in

i see that it is often cut too early before the bg has flowered then it has to be cut more often

wait till bg is well in flower then second cut is july

then cut in the autumn

bee farmers prefer it cut in early autumn as late flowering encourages the worker bees out when it is too cold and weakens the colonies for the winter

 

[wanton dwarf]

A nearby farm has a large area (over 200 acres) of poor arable land on light soils.
Logically the Agent has put it all into AB15 which after the wet winter had established well. Blackgrass was not an issue on this land.

The wildlife seemed to have happily populated it and there were Pheasants and other birds had happily nested as there was plenty of cover from predators.

I was extremely surprised to see the whole area topped in the last few days and any Chicks or birds still nesting will have no chance of survival at all.
According to the prescription this will have to be cut again this year but never grazed.

I am missing the logic of this? I see no environmental benefit and little soil improvement!

TBH I think all the Green policy is just a bunch of people mucking about - even the so called charities with wildlife parks

What is the point in planting a field, creates some plants but does not create a breeding ground - same for the wildlife parks

All left to chance, if people want to increase certain species then they need to be bred in controlled conditions - not create a supermarket for certain predators or create a haven with no breeding animals or birds that come

Very sad state of affiars, very little intelligence involved - plenty of hope ?? dunno doesn't seem right to me

 

[farmerm]

The whole thing is a crock in my view and I won’t be doing any of it. Every arable option has some weasel words that mean you can’t control one weed or another or break the take all or virus bridge. Quite happy to just keep on growing crops and grass. It’s easy and keeps your farm clean.

Easy, clean... Not terms I would used looking at my growing and failed crops of 2023/24