ADF good? or a long term rip off?

[newholland]

ADF - is it worth it? - are there any experienced farm users on here who could please write the gritty details of ADF reality - is it a happy place to be after 5 years?

Seems to work and does a reasonable job.
Very expensive to buy, but there again most good things are.

What are the long term running costs really like? - how much gets broken by the cows? - how long do the liners really last for?

My reason is to make milking faster, my hands hurt from teat dip cups and we need cluster flush system anyhow as have to keep quite a few old cows milking due to TB shortage.

- only adf and air wash leave the cluster the correct way round which seems to make life a bit easier

Vaccar is £4000
Cluster clean £8000
ATL £9000
ADF £17500 they are happy for any iodine teat dip after 12months warranty - but advise 2000milkings per set liners.

NeilO, I seem to remember you have previous relationship history with Mr ADF or Mrs ADF?

 

[Blue.]

I prefer airwashplus from thwhite.

You keep your own liner.

How many units?

Thwhite wanted £27k to supply for my 32 units.

 

[newholland]

your £150 cheaper a point!

But the price of the claw is included with ADF ...... helpful in a new parlour situation with no existing claws to start with.
Mind you, a few new teat dip cups at £8 each is perhaps not so bad after all.

Fit half adf and half air wash and tell each manufacturer your doing a trial with the results written on here and they need to fit them for free

 

[Eminus]

I'll sell you a 24 point ADF complete but minus compressor for £2500

 

[dinderleat]

ADF - is it worth it? - are there any experienced farm users on here who could please write the gritty details of ADF reality - is it a happy place to be after 5 years?

Seems to work and does a reasonable job.
Very expensive to buy, but there again most good things are.

What are the long term running costs really like? - how much gets broken by the cows? - how long do the liners really last for?

My reason is to make milking faster, my hands hurt from teat dip cups and we need cluster flush system anyhow as have to keep quite a few old cows milking due to TB shortage.

- only adf and air wash leave the cluster the correct way round which seems to make life a bit easier

Vaccar is £4000
Cluster clean £8000
ATL £9000
ADF £17500 they are happy for any iodine teat dip after 12months warranty - but advise 2000milkings per set liners.

NeilO, I seem to remember you have previous relationship history with Mr ADF or Mrs ADF?

How many clusters is that for?

 

[newholland]

16

 

[Cows 'n grass]

I'll sell you a 24 point ADF complete but minus compressor for £2500

What didn't you like about it?

 

[Headless chicken]

ADF - is it worth it? - are there any experienced farm users on here who could please write the gritty details of ADF reality - is it a happy place to be after 5 years?

Seems to work and does a reasonable job.
Very expensive to buy, but there again most good things are.

What are the long term running costs really like? - how much gets broken by the cows? - how long do the liners really last for?

My reason is to make milking faster, my hands hurt from teat dip cups and we need cluster flush system anyhow as have to keep quite a few old cows milking due to TB shortage.

- only adf and air wash leave the cluster the correct way round which seems to make life a bit easier

Vaccar is £4000
Cluster clean £8000
ATL £9000
ADF £17500 they are happy for any iodine teat dip after 12months warranty - but advise 2000milkings per set liners.

NeilO, I seem to remember you have previous relationship history with Mr ADF or Mrs ADF?

Is vaccar really that cheap?!? I would be sereously worried if it's 4k cheaper than cluster clean!!!

local farm says he loved adf for the first 2 years then the break downs started. Apparently he has been told by someone from ADF that it takes 1 day a week to service and maintain..... That could be rumour mind.

 

[Headless chicken]

I will also add I milk in a parlour with a vaccar cluster flush that is so incredibly awful it may as well not exist BUT the parlour is ancient and this was one of the very first systems I belive so would assume they have improved a lot.

@multi power uses a vaccar system and I believe is very pleased with it

 

[cattow]

Main running costs with ADF would be liners at £28 set, I went with ADF as the cluster is lighter than the fullwood ones l had before. l priced up fullwood power purge and ADF wasn't much dearer.

 

[multi power]

I will also add I milk in a parlour with a vaccar cluster flush that is so incredibly awful it may as well not exist BUT the parlour is ancient and this was one of the very first systems I belive so would assume they have improved a lot.

@multi power uses a vaccar system and I believe is very pleased with it

Apparently the vaccar system is crap
But I think it's great. Certainly a lot better than spreading mastitis around
A system that dips as well would be fantastic but would need very reliable ACR s

 

[newholland]

Vaccar seem to range from being an absolute customer disaster to reasonably happy customers. I am not sure why.

 

[J B]

I will also add I milk in a parlour with a vaccar cluster flush that is so incredibly awful it may as well not exist

Apparently the vaccar system is crap
But I think it's great. Certainly a lot better than spreading mastitis around

What's the problem with Vaccar??

We had one of the early systems in about 2004 (?)

It was still working ok on Boxing Day when I was invited to use it

 

[ClusterClean Systems]

Hello,

I'm Charles from ClusterClean systems.
We specialise in building and installing flush systems. link

There's a lot to any flush or dip/flush system and some are better than others.
As mentioned above you need a good installer to get the best out of these systems.

We install most of our systems with our in house team so we know they are right, then stand behind it with a 2 year warranty.

The are systems that don't protect the milk line before they flush. There's nothing to stop flush solution can end up in the tank.
We always install a compressed air shutoff valve to clamp the milk tube before the milk meter to solve this. It costs more but it's worth it.

On the original question, the are some that dip & flush. We haven't built any dip systems because:

• They leave the cluster the usual way up, however only rinse half the liner.
  
• This leaves milk residue and any teat dip that has run down inside the liner before the cluster detaches in the bowl.
• So milk residue (cross infection risk/mastitis milk) is in the bottom of the liner & bowl ready for the next cow.
• Fragile from pipes down to the cluster and teat dip in the pulsation. Poor pulsation is the quickest way to a herd full of mastitis.
  
• 1 system uses compressed air to spray teat dip up the teat canal.
• Compressed air is very dangerous near any body/skin opening and can kill. It's called an air embolism. Is this improving cow health?
• Does anyone check the cows after they are milked and auto dipped? How do you know they are milked out and haven't got a hard quarter?

With a clean cluster for every cow, every milking - a well installed and serviced flush system can work wonders within a herd.
If you'd like a demo, we're in Hereford end of next week, we'd be pleased to help.

Thanks

Charles

ClusterClean

 

[Headless chicken]

What's the problem with Vaccar??

We had one of the early systems in about 2004 (?)

It was still working ok on Boxing Day when I was invited to use it

It could be totally un fair on my behalf as it could be to do with the parlour more than the vaccar system but when I was looking for a flush system my parlour fitter push me as far away from vaccar as he has had so many problems.

I think vaccar also used to use a pre mix tank as aposed to a slug wash system. The problem with this is that perecitic has a very short life span once mixed as it oxidises when it comes into contact with bacteria

 

[snowhite]

Hello,

I'm Charles from ClusterClean systems.
We specialise in building and installing flush systems. link

There's a lot to any flush or dip/flush system and some are better than others.
As mentioned above you need a good installer to get the best out of these systems.

We install most of our systems with our in house team so we know they are right, then stand behind it with a 2 year warranty.

The are systems that don't protect the milk line before they flush. There's nothing to stop flush solution can end up in the tank.
We always install a compressed air shutoff valve to clamp the milk tube before the milk meter to solve this. It costs more but it's worth it.

On the original question, the are some that dip & flush. We haven't built any dip systems because:

• They leave the cluster the usual way up, however only rinse half the liner.
  
• This leaves milk residue and any teat dip that has run down inside the liner before the cluster detaches in the bowl.
• So milk residue (cross infection risk/mastitis milk) is in the bottom of the liner & bowl ready for the next cow.
• Fragile from pipes down to the cluster and teat dip in the pulsation. Poor pulsation is the quickest way to a herd full of mastitis.
  
• 1 system uses compressed air to spray teat dip up the teat canal.
• Compressed air is very dangerous near any body/skin opening and can kill. It's called an air embolism. Is this improving cow health?
• Does anyone check the cows after they are milked and auto dipped? How do you know they are milked out and haven't got a hard quarter?

With a clean cluster for every cow, every milking - a well installed and serviced flush system can work wonders within a herd.
If you'd like a demo, we're in Hereford end of next week, we'd be pleased to help.

Thanks

Charles

ClusterClean

hi and welcome i would be intrested to see what you bring here

 

[Maxxum-man]

We have had our vaccar system in for years, it's been very reliable, does what it says on the tin, and does it properly, not a jack of all trades job like some of the others

 

[newholland]

See this is the thing - Max Man loves it and yet our neighbour is swearing at it with the valves failing and has a quote for Charles P to fit a complete new system in there.

 

[multi power]

See this is the thing - Max Man loves it and yet our neighbour is swearing at it with the valves failing and has a quote for Charles P to fit a complete new system in there.

in 4 years we have replaced maybe 2 or 3 valves, they all had a service this year, think just changed seals or something

 

[vaccarman]

Hi NewHolland, my name is Simon from Vaccar Ltd, just having a quick read through this thread and noticed your comment regarding your neighbor. We would be more than happy to come out and have a look at the system to ascertain what the issue may be and help in any way we can before he decides to change the system completely at what I can imagine would be a considerable cost. We believe in a Clusterflush system hugely so there is someone out there that is experiencing issues with it we would love to know. Judging by your location you are not very far away so we could come and assist your neighbor and maybe pay a visit to yourself at the same time to have a look at your parlour. If you would like to ask your neighbor to give us a call on 01600 716216 I'd be more than happy to discuss solving his issues.

With regards to pre-mixing in the tank, this is something that we used to do with our early system when it was a gravity feed. However a lot of areas experience issues with build up in the tank due to water hardness and the chemical pulling certain chemicals out of suspension in the water. After a lot of testing we soon decided to switch to a presurised system which has been hugely reliable and successful. The life of the internal diaphragms is now 3 years, sometimes longer so we are extremely happy as this reduces the service costs for our customers.

I hope this helps you with your decision, we are here if you need further information.