ADF good? or a long term rip off?

[Maxxum-man]

Ey up @vaccarman what's my commission!?

 

[snowhite]

Ey up @vaccarman what's my commission!?

you slipped up you did not ask that first , lol

 

[vaccarman]

There's always commission to be had if a sale is made!

 

[Headless chicken]

Hi NewHolland, my name is Simon from Vaccar Ltd, just having a quick read through this thread and noticed your comment regarding your neighbor. We would be more than happy to come out and have a look at the system to ascertain what the issue may be and help in any way we can before he decides to change the system completely at what I can imagine would be a considerable cost. We believe in a Clusterflush system hugely so there is someone out there that is experiencing issues with it we would love to know. Judging by your location you are not very far away so we could come and assist your neighbor and maybe pay a visit to yourself at the same time to have a look at your parlour. If you would like to ask your neighbor to give us a call on 01600 716216 I'd be more than happy to discuss solving his issues.

With regards to pre-mixing in the tank, this is something that we used to do with our early system when it was a gravity feed. However a lot of areas experience issues with build up in the tank due to water hardness and the chemical pulling certain chemicals out of suspension in the water. After a lot of testing we soon decided to switch to a presurised system which has been hugely reliable and successful. The life of the internal diaphragms is now 3 years, sometimes longer so we are extremely happy as this reduces the service costs for our customers.

I hope this helps you with your decision, we are here if you need further information.

The power of TFF at work! I am sure your input is greatly recieved it's good to bring opinions and knowledge from both sides of the fence together.

 

[Headless chicken]

@vaccarman prehaps you would care to explain how your system works in comparison to other systems on the market

 

[newholland]

Hi Simon, good to read your post - thank you for joining.
Mr E, from Sheffield with a new vaccar 20/40 + Jersey cows was wondering if his complementary vaccar overalls x3 were still on your delivery schedule!

The vaccar cluster flush I mentioned was one of the first you fitted, so in the scale of things it has not done so badly. The farm had previously spoken to you before Christmas, so they know where you are.

It would help if can define what is a service item and what is not a service item in the vaccar flush system - no good people moaning if the fault is caused by something which they should have done as a service item.

Make sure you allocate some Farming forum time into your new business plan Simon!.

 

[Blue.]

@vaccarman when is your online catalogue coming back?

I always found it useful and bought from you,I haven't dealt with vaccar since it's been off.

 

[Eminus]

Clusters coming off before dip applied, not milking out properly, very poor quality rubber in liners, heavy clusters.
Poor poor service by engineer and an extremely bad attitude from ADF themselves.
All issues that could have been fixed by engineer but they just didn't want to know.
SCC was up at and over 300 with it, since removing it and going back to harmonys and iodine post spray SCC now back to 150-180

 

[vaccarman]

@Headless chicken we have been manufacturing and refining the Clusterflush for over 10 years now, longer than any other manufacturer. Our system is completely programmable for each individual farmer and setup. We have fitted our system to almost every type of milking parlour going and have solved every installation conundrum we have been faced with, whether it was a specific farmer request or setup issue. We make every effort to keep the system as cost effective as possible, if the shutoff on the parlour is strong enough why spend farmer money introducing another one for instance?

Rather than compare our system to others I prefer to sell our Clusterflush on the strengths of the system:

• We don't interfere with your cluster, it simply returns from the cow in a different way,
• We tee into the milk line away from the business end of the parlour,
• If the is no milk sweep we are able to introduce one,
• If you prefer a batch flush system we can do it,
• Want a manual system? no problem.
• We have the largest flexibility over every other company offering the Clusterflush simply because we have installed the most and have faced every installation difficulty.

Regarding the system that you have experienced an issue with, even if it is the parlour we would be more than happy to take a look and see if we can resolve it, I'm sure it can be done.

@newholland I think I am familiar with this installation and we have visited and resolved the issue however your point regarding the service items is good one and something I can look at ensuring we do better in the future. Farming Forum time should be part of my daily routine now!

@eulb We had a virus attack our catalogue section of our website so were forced to shut it down. We then had plans to produce a separate website for the shop section however this has been put on the back burner for the time being so we may fire up the old section soon, I will keep you posted. If you need something by all means do not hesitate to call though.

Hope that covers everything!

 

[dinderleat]

@Headless chicken we have been manufacturing and refining the Clusterflush for over 10 years now, longer than any other manufacturer. Our system is completely programmable for each individual farmer and setup. We have fitted our system to almost every type of milking parlour going and have solved every installation conundrum we have been faced with, whether it was a specific farmer request or setup issue. We make every effort to keep the system as cost effective as possible, if the shutoff on the parlour is strong enough why spend farmer money introducing another one for instance?

Rather than compare our system to others I prefer to sell our Clusterflush on the strengths of the system:

• We don't interfere with your cluster, it simply returns from the cow in a different way,
• We tee into the milk line away from the business end of the parlour,
• If the is no milk sweep we are able to introduce one,
• If you prefer a batch flush system we can do it,
• Want a manual system? no problem.
• We have the largest flexibility over every other company offering the Clusterflush simply because we have installed the most and have faced every installation difficulty.

Regarding the system that you have experienced an issue with, even if it is the parlour we would be more than happy to take a look and see if we can resolve it, I'm sure it can be done.

@newholland I think I am familiar with this installation and we have visited and resolved the issue however your point regarding the service items is good one and something I can look at ensuring we do better in the future. Farming Forum time should be part of my daily routine now!

@eulb We had a virus attack our catalogue section of our website so were forced to shut it down. We then had plans to produce a separate website for the shop section however this has been put on the back burner for the time being so we may fire up the old section soon, I will keep you posted. If you need something by all means do not hesitate to call though.

Hope that covers everything!

Better have a quote for a 16/16( soon to be a 24/24 ) de-Laval with harmony clusters batch system one would probably be the cheapest option?

 

[Fergieman]

@vaccarman whats the pros/cons of your system compared to the Cotswold system?

The cotswold system seems a very simple system with no solenoids to maintain.

 

[ClusterClean Systems]

If i may,

It's gravity fed pipe work, installation of all pipe & cylinders need to be perfectly level or there's a tendency for the pipework to airlock.

Peracetic acid gives off oxygen gas which will form air bubbles within the supply pipes. This is why our pressurised system is better and far more flexible as it simply blows them out.

See vaccarmans post about gravity fed tanks and chemical/deposits.

The are still valves to maintain.
If you follow the link to the sureflush brochure (it is the same thing)
It explains the are still internal valves and a plastic manifold to change.

The used to be a youtube video (can't find it yet) on taking the cylinder lid off, taking it all out, the replacing the insides. Also a non return valve in the bottom. Can anyone else find it?

 

[TheRanger]

Hello,

I'm Charles from ClusterClean systems.
We specialise in building and installing flush systems. link

There's a lot to any flush or dip/flush system and some are better than others.
As mentioned above you need a good installer to get the best out of these systems.

We install most of our systems with our in house team so we know they are right, then stand behind it with a 2 year warranty.

The are systems that don't protect the milk line before they flush. There's nothing to stop flush solution can end up in the tank.
We always install a compressed air shutoff valve to clamp the milk tube before the milk meter to solve this. It costs more but it's worth it.

On the original question, the are some that dip & flush. We haven't built any dip systems because:

• They leave the cluster the usual way up, however only rinse half the liner.
  
• This leaves milk residue and any teat dip that has run down inside the liner before the cluster detaches in the bowl.
• So milk residue (cross infection risk/mastitis milk) is in the bottom of the liner & bowl ready for the next cow.
• Fragile from pipes down to the cluster and teat dip in the pulsation. Poor pulsation is the quickest way to a herd full of mastitis.
  
• 1 system uses compressed air to spray teat dip up the teat canal.
• Compressed air is very dangerous near any body/skin opening and can kill. It's called an air embolism. Is this improving cow health?
• Does anyone check the cows after they are milked and auto dipped? How do you know they are milked out and haven't got a hard quarter?

With a clean cluster for every cow, every milking - a well installed and serviced flush system can work wonders within a herd.
If you'd like a demo, we're in Hereford end of next week, we'd be pleased to help.

Thanks

Charles

ClusterClean

We sometimes buy your cluster flushing chemical. Why has the colour recently changed from a light blue to clear. It doesn't seem to be as frothy or as good?

 

[ClusterClean Systems]

@TheRanger

Hi
It's not actually our chemical we don't make it or sell it!


The are lots of chemicals now on the market, You can use any of them with our systems, we don't commit you to any chemical contracts.

We recommend 5% peracetic acid. We build our ClusterClean flush system to withstand it.

Its doesn't taint the milk & breaks down very quickly to food safe ingredients. It's got world wide approval in all food industries and works very well at very low dilution.

We take real pride in doing the job properly and safely on every farm, most of our business is from recommendations so we must be doing something right.
We don't take like to take any risks or shortcuts with your milk.

Charles

ClusterClean Systems

 

[TheRanger]

@TheRanger

Hi
It's not actually our chemical we don't make it or sell it!


The are lots of chemicals now on the market, You can use any of them with our systems, we don't commit you to any chemical contracts.

We recommend 5% peracetic acid. We build our ClusterClean flush system to withstand it.

Its doesn't taint the milk & breaks down very quickly to food safe ingredients. It's got world wide approval in all food industries and works very well at very low dilution.

We take real pride in doing the job properly and safely on every farm, most of our business is from recommendations so we must be doing something right.
We don't take like to take any risks or shortcuts with your milk.

Charles

ClusterClean Systems

The chemical we use is called ClusterClean TM, just assumed it was made by you guys, apologies if not. It's not a peracetic acid but is an equivalent of it that lasts much longer once diluted in water. We've had brilliant results with it, just don't like the fact the new stuff doesn't froth up.

 

[ClusterClean Systems]

I'm glad its working for you, sorry it's not us.

We specialise in making really good flush systems .

 

[TheRanger]

I'm glad its working for you, sorry it's not us.

We specialise in making really good flush systems .

Sorry for the confusion, it's called ClusterFlushTM the stuff I'm talking about, not ClusterCleanTM!

http://www.medsaanimalhealth.com/

 

[newholland]

My conclusion is that I really would advise all farmers to physically look at how all the cluster flush systems actually work and see the difference in components. Well worth actually taking the time to go and look at it working in a real parlour which is at least 3 years old. - every system seems very accessible for a farm visit via the farming forum and for that I am very grateful.

I have learned a lot - there really are a lot of very big differences between all the systems, even though they appear to all be the same.

 

[vaccarman]

@Fergieman I think @ClusterClean Systems has answered your question however if you require some clarification as to how our system works please do not hesitate.

@ranger you may want to check the product you are using. My experience of this particular product is that it actually kills all bacteria good or bad which can be detrimental to your milk if contaminated, especially if your are selling your milk to cheese makers. I know it does a very good job with killing bugs, just maybe too well! However if it is working for you it's a very good alternative to peracetic acid.

 

[Fraserb]

@vaccarman whats the pros/cons of your system compared to the Cotswold system?

The cotswold system seems a very simple system with no solenoids to maintain.

Its the cotswold system in our parlour, been in 2 and a bit years and no bother.