Agronomic Advise Received!

[david]

And why don't you get quotes from Hutch - Frontier - Agrii - Agrovista - Zantra before making your purchases ?

 

[marcot]

Don't you boys on the mainland have a new distributor in the making with AF Logic ?

yep ...that's what I was referring to earlier

 

[marcot]

And why don't you get quotes from Hutch - Frontier - Agrii - Agrovista - Zantra before making your purchases ?

that's the job of the buying group

 

[david]

that's the job of the buying group

But by the time you have paid your membership fees to buying group, you might find its cheaper to purchase direct from distributor ?

 

[Brisel]

But by the time you have paid your membership fees to buying group, you might find its cheaper to purchase direct from distributor ?

Been there, done that. Spent quite a lot of time on it too. A few good deals on certain products plus non specific rebates more than pays for the membership fees, not to mention my time emailing around them all. AF didn't save me much on most products vs doing it myself. Cost vs value debate - the group is part of my business. If I didn't I'd need a few more hours/week in the office during peak spraying season when really I should be out walking crops. Groups aren't for everyone - some really enjoy the haggling, others want to sub the whole job out to a serviced agronomist who hopefully won't rip them off. Most don't.

 

[david]

So are your independent advisers really 'independent' if they are picking up commission on selling chemicals ?

Still pays to be half clued up about the job yourself !!

 

[richard hammond]

No he's not. He works for a regional independent distributor, so he would say that

Some good points though, but I'm not paying extra just to keep the likes of Agrii service agronomists in flash cars. Collectively, he is right if we don't support the majors but I still need to buy low and sell high. Ironically, most of my buying group chems come from Agrii...

Independent Distributor?? that's a new one on me,, they say nothing can change,,

 

[richard hammond]

So are your independent advisers really 'independent' if they are picking up commission on selling chemicals ?

Still pays to be half clued up about the job yourself !!

Sir, please do not tar all Independent agronomists with the same brush, some are honest and do as they say, I charge enough so I make my living as an
independent agronomist giving absolutely independent advise!! being truly independent seems to be a problem in todays farming world as no bugger will
believe you can actually do it!!

 

[david]

So Richard, you would walk your clients' crops and make recommendations as to what treatment they need ? And then the growers goes and sources the chemicals from whoever ?

Would you advise your clients on varieties, rotations etc rather than just crop walking for chemical sprays ?

 

[franklin]

But by the time you have paid your membership fees to buying group, you might find its cheaper to purchase direct from distributor ?

I put a lot of £££ through local buying group. Cost is still a very small % of turnover.

 

[ollie989898]

Sir, please do not tar all Independent agronomists with the same brush, some are honest and do as they say, I charge enough so I make my living as an
independent agronomist giving absolutely independent advise!! being truly independent seems to be a problem in todays farming world as no bugger will
believe you can actually do it!!

Are you prepared to walk crops for £3 an acre then?

I suspect, when all is said and done, there is not much difference between the 'profit' from the job you or I capture, where the units are similar in size. Any extra on my part will have been arrived at where I have sold the seed and fertiliser as well.

The REAL problem are people out there positively loading the tank with all and sundry, which is something I don't do and never will. Those days ended years and years ago.

 

[richard hammond]

So Richard, you would walk your clients' crops and make recommendations as to what treatment they need ? And then the growers goes and sources the chemicals from whoever ?

Would you advise your clients on varieties, rotations etc rather than just crop walking for chemical sprays ?

David, this is where I really struggle to get people to believe that I will a) walk and rec b)purchase the product from the cheapest source taking into account active etc (with no bloody commission or added extras) c)I do also advise on all aspects of crop production, gross margins, cashflow etc.
d) I am only human and will make mistakes but as I have worked with the majority of my clients as an independent agronomist for up to 28 years it cannot be all bad. Quote= most people will not suffer a fool for long, but some fools will put up with people for to long.

 

[BenB]

Are you prepared to walk crops for £3 an acre then?

Good luck to anyone offering to provide independent agronomy for £3/ac.... they are not making any money doing it

 

[richard hammond]

Are you prepared to walk crops for £3 an acre then?

I suspect, when all is said and done, there is not much difference between the 'profit' from the job you or I capture, where the units are similar in size. Any extra on my part will have been arrived at where I have sold the seed and fertiliser as well.

The REAL problem are people out there positively loading the tank with all and sundry, which is something I don't do and never will. Those days ended years and years ago.

Who ever said I will walk field for £3/acre, up North we now work in Hectares, so £7.413/ha, I earn my living by charging a rate that I can live a decent life with modest expectations, actually is it all about money? In my case NO I do this job the way I do it because I AM HAPPY!!
Again here we are with people making assumptions about how other people do their job and at what cost!

 

[richard hammond]

Good luck to anyone offering to provide independent agronomy for £3/ac.... they are not making any money doing it

I would rather stop in bed ! than waste my time using my experience for £3/acre, where has that stupid figure come from???

 

[richard hammond]

Are you prepared to walk crops for £3 an acre then?

I suspect, when all is said and done, there is not much difference between the 'profit' from the job you or I capture, where the units are similar in size. Any extra on my part will have been arrived at where I have sold the seed and fertiliser as well.

The REAL problem are people out there positively loading the tank with all and sundry, which is something I don't do and never will. Those days ended years and years ago.

So you make it up on seed and fert? no independence there then, please compare like with like, and do not call peoples ethics that you know nothing about!

 

[richard hammond]

You lot will only have yourselves to blame when there are 3 big companies bending you over because you forced the smaller companies out in your race to the bottom.

If you want to confuse price with value thats fine but dont forget even your fabled buying groups are not supplied direct by manufacturers.

Even Richard Hammond is not immune when there are craniums in my region willing to walk crops for £3/acre. Can you compete with that?

You are dreaming if you think small firms will emerge from the likes of Argii or whoever fragmenting because the big maufacturers will simply not deal with small companies because their volumes are too small.

Yes even independents cannot deal direct with BASF which begs the question why would anyone deal with the big names who sell to the quote trade only then to flog the same product for more money to 'loyal' customers???

Its all a race to the bottom which will end in tears when you consider that it is the non generic end of the business who are paying for the development of new products.

I have never asked or looked for immunity as I feel what I say I believe in, do you think there can be no change?

 

[Hampton]

You lot will only have yourselves to blame when there are 3 big companies bending you over because you forced the smaller companies out in your race to the bottom.

If you want to confuse price with value thats fine but dont forget even your fabled buying groups are not supplied direct by manufacturers.

Even Richard Hammond is not immune when there are craniums in my region willing to walk crops for £3/acre. Can you compete with that?

You are dreaming if you think small firms will emerge from the likes of Argii or whoever fragmenting because the big maufacturers will simply not deal with small companies because their volumes are too small.

Yes even independents cannot deal direct with BASF which begs the question why would anyone deal with the big names who sell to the quote trade only then to flog the same product for more money to 'loyal' customers???

Its all a race to the bottom which will end in tears when you consider that it is the non generic end of the business who are paying for the development of new products.

There are two firms up here called Spunhill and BCW. Both started with less than a hand full of agrons about 20 years ago, both have direct accounts with Agchem firms.
Things go in cycles, and agronomists will get fed up with the pressure to sell from their bosses when they can see freeloaders in the firms.

 

[ollie989898]

Who ever said I will walk field for £3/acre, up North we now work in Hectares, so £7.413/ha, I earn my living by charging a rate that I can live a decent life with modest expectations, actually is it all about money? In my case NO I do this job the way I do it because I AM HAPPY!!
Again here we are with people making assumptions about how other people do their job and at what cost!

No need for the hostility, I was merely asking a question and pointing out that there are people out there doing it for £3 an acre somehow. One can draw their own conclusions about how one earns a living from it at that rate, since you apparently are not prepared to do it for that and neither am I.

At any rate, given the responsibility involved, and the lengthy nature of the training required, I have no problem with people earning salaries comparable with any other professional, I do not need why someone need accept a lower wage or standard of living purely because it is based on agriculture.

 

[ollie989898]

There are two firms up here called Spunhill and BCW. Both started with less than a hand full of agrons about 20 years ago, both have direct accounts with Agchem firms.
Things go in cycles, and agronomists will get fed up with the pressure to sell from their bosses when they can see freeloaders in the firms.

I would suggest you ask BCW how it is that they are able to deal direct with the likes of BASF and Bayer who are naturally only interested in volumes. As I am familiar with their company I already know the answer, and it is for the very same reason I am able to obtain first rate and big name potato and beet chemistry despite the fact that they are minority crops in my area to say the least.

As you say there are a number of smaller, privately owned businesses nationwide who operate only on a local or regional basis often from one man bands to a whole slew of people and do not like to see them criticised purely on the basis that they might operate as a distributor of sorts.