AHDB and Red Tractor

[ajd132]

Niab, amongst others, benefit from the trials work that they perform for AHDB under contract. The loss of Cereal & Oilseeds and their R&D budget would cause problems for the likes of NIAB Tag.
People need to think long and hard about how they vote in any AHDB Cereals and Oilseeds vote. Many do not know or understand how the whole industry is intertwined. I am most definitely not in support of AHDB giving funds to RT but the value I derive from AHDB Cereals and Oilseeds makes it excellent value for money for true Independant research.
The industry (farmers) would, IMHO, be incredibly foolish to throw that away.

Agree with you. However seems alot of good people leaving cereals and oilseeds. I have no issue with paying for info. Some of the stuff Ahdb do is far too basic, and the really interesting stuff seems to get put into archives but can be found if hunted for.
Teaching farmers at meetings to cost out a tractor is not a good way to spend levy payers money.
Overall I would rather they stay though but with some reform.

 

[An Gof]

Agree with you. However seems alot of good people leaving cereals and oilseeds. I have no issue with paying for info. Some of the stuff Ahdb do is far too basic, and the really interesting stuff seems to get put into archives but can be found if hunted for.
Teaching farmers at meetings to cost out a tractor is not a good way to spend levy payers money.
Overall I would rather they stay though but with some reform.

That’s a fair point. I attended an AHDB farm management meeting at Exeter. It was quite simply dire and really aimed at a kindergarten level. I did not hold back on the feedback form but heard no more. Another South Devon cereal farmer who I have a great deal of respect for also attended. His view was similar to mine.
I guess it’s difficult for them to provide something of value for levy payers at all levels. But some ot it is far too basic in my opinion.
If you are prepared to engage fully there is a wealth of information and resource availble. Cereals and Oilseeds is probably the most respected sector board. I struggle with deriving the same value from the Beef and Lamb board…… too much focus on Suckler need to my way of thinking.

 

[wanton dwarf]

Niab, amongst others, benefit from the trials work that they perform for AHDB under contract. The loss of Cereal & Oilseeds and their R&D budget would cause problems for the likes of NIAB Tag.
People need to think long and hard about how they vote in any AHDB Cereals and Oilseeds vote. Many do not know or understand how the whole industry is intertwined. I am most definitely not in support of AHDB giving funds to RT but the value I derive from AHDB Cereals and Oilseeds makes it excellent value for money for true Independant research.
The industry (farmers) would, IMHO, be incredibly foolish to throw that away.

The problem is that ADHB is useless.

Take the advice on Black Grass and Rye Grass. The research is over 20 years old. And to be quite frank there's no chemical mix advice nor rotation of chems nor cultivation advice nor variety advice nor planting advice nor timing for spring sprays or what to spray or adjuvanents or water softners/de-ionisation. Not even information of max chem loadings.

We do get mention of "Cultural Control" - but no reference to what that means in practice and the net results.

I recently looked at the information on fungicides. The data was a set of graphs which could be interpretted multiple ways. I decided the information was of no commercial use what-so-ever. In fact I was in danger of making a bad decision because the data was so poorly presented.

ADHB is a mess.

I got my information on fungicides from elsewhere - using data from ADHB that was from 2017 (It said so on the informations sheet) but it was behind a paywall.

 

[Grass And Grain]

I get value from AHDB cereals. I don't really want to lose that.

However...

AHDB are part owners of RT.

They have been gifting levy payers money to RT (ring fenced for marketing iirc).

RT using those funds to promote the RT brand.

Through this route, levy payers are therefore gifting money to have their own markets cut off by RT.

Imports have essentially free market access to our mills. UK grain can only access the mills if RT assured. That marketing access anomaly partly funded by AHDB.

You couldn't make it up!

We're paying to close off our own markets.

Think about levy payers who are not RT assured. THEY CANNOT SELL THEIR GRAIN TO UK FEED MILLS. These levy payers helped fund the occurrence of this situation.

It's a mess, and I think AHDB are in charge of their own future. Personally I think the feeling amongst farmers about the situation is so strong, that they'd sacrifice AHDB C&O if the market access issue weren't to be resolved.

Shame if that happens.

The future of AHDB Cereals might he in the hands of RT, AIC and NFU. If AHDB goes, I'd blame those three organisations.

Ironic that AHDB have been giving marketing budget to RT, and that might be the downfall of OUR marketing board.

 

[Wooly]

We all need to remind AHDB that we are not happy to pay a compusary levy to them, that they donate some to the Rusty Tractor scheme !!

They might listen now that they have had their nose blooded by the veg growers.


All helps to get another parasite off the pay roll of British Agriculture PLC

 

[Grass And Grain]

I'm beef and lamb and not cereals.

What I have clearly noticed is that AHDB have listened and have shown a willingness to change.
This should be applauded as it is not something the NFU or RT have done.

I can understand it being perfectly reasonable for AHDB to give money to RT for its promotions as a good use of money in shared interest. Better to have 1 good PR budget than 2 poor ones.

Who would happily pay levies to AHDB if they provided an alternative self-cert assurance scheme?

Re: your last paragraph.

AHDB have been trying hard to get RT and AIC to fix the problem - Martin Grantley Smith and Paul Temple have been doing what they can in a logical order. Seemingly RT and AIC don't want to change anything (funny that, as they'd lose their income).

AHDB were disappointed at the lack of support from NFU (again, no surprise there, NFU seem to want to reduce the competitiveness of their own farmers).

If AHDB want to work harder and take it upon themselves to help levy payers, after exhausting all avenues with RT/AIC/NFU, then they can create something along the ines of an AHDB branded self-cert assurance based on a pesticide declaration on the grain passport.

If AHDB did that, levy payer funded, then I think AHDB could not only save themselves, but come out looking like heroes, go from strength to strength in the future, and hopefully help UK grain farmers to flourish.

It's possible for AHDB to come out of this VERY WELL. Our suggestion hands them a 'get out of jail for free' card, gifted on a plate.

 

[graham mc]

cut the levy so they havent got the spare cash to give away to the parasites???

 

[Steevo]

I’m pretty sure that PGRO (pulse growers research organisation) is funded by a voluntary levy whereas AHDB Cereals is compulsory.

PGRO are still around and run excellent events.

Just another perspective.

 

[Bruce Almighty]

cut the levy so they havent got the spare cash to give away to the parasites???

Then RT will increase the membership fee to cover the loss

 

[tullah]

Then RT will increase the membership fee to cover the loss

That would be a dangerous game for them given the circumstances.

 

[Bruce Almighty]

That would be a dangerous game for them given the circumstances.

They have a monopoly
It should be illegal

 

[An Gof]

Re: your last paragraph.

AHDB have been trying hard to get RT and AIC to fix the problem - Martin Grantley Smith and Paul Temple have been doing what they can in a logical order. Seemingly RT and AIC don't want to change anything (funny that, as they'd lose their income).

AHDB were disappointed at the lack of support from NFU (again, no surprise there, NFU seem to want to reduce the competitiveness of their own farmers).

If AHDB want to work harder and take it upon themselves to help levy payers, after exhausting all avenues with RT/AIC/NFU, then they can create something along the ines of an AHDB branded self-cert assurance based on a pesticide declaration on the grain passport.

If AHDB did that, levy payer funded, then I think AHDB could not only save themselves, but come out looking like heroes, go from strength to strength in the future, and hopefully help UK grain farmers to flourish.

It's possible for AHDB to come out of this VERY WELL. Our suggestion hands them a 'get out of jail for free' card, gifted on a plate.

You are obviously working on this @Grass And Grain and it appears from your post that you have been in contact with MGS and Paul Temple. My concern is that there may be changes in these key people prior to any vote. I am not sure but i have a feeling that Paul Temples period of office must be almost at an end (unless extended). Is there a risk that the Chair may change at a critical moment?
MGS has been with AHDB/HGCA for a good many years and is a respected person. However it has been well documented in the press that senior management positions at AHDB are under review; none of us know where that axe might fall. Some big changes to come .........

 

[SilliamWhale]

That’s a fair point. I attended an AHDB farm management meeting at Exeter. It was quite simply dire and really aimed at a kindergarten level. I did not hold back on the feedback form but heard no more. Another South Devon cereal farmer who I have a great deal of respect for also attended. His view was similar to mine.
I guess it’s difficult for them to provide something of value for levy payers at all levels. But some ot it is far too basic in my opinion.
If you are prepared to engage fully there is a wealth of information and resource availble. Cereals and Oilseeds is probably the most respected sector board. I struggle with deriving the same value from the Beef and Lamb board…… too much focus on Suckler need to my way of thinking.

Tell me what is the wealth of information you are referring to?

I am inclined to agree with you on a lot of information and I definitely appreciate the fungicide research seconded to Adas but a lot of this industry is very mature so I wonder if the budget needs to be so great or is the research as innovative as a that?

Certainly if there is room to pee it away on Red Tractor then there is too much cash about

 

[Grass And Grain]

You are obviously working on this @Grass And Grain and it appears from your post that you have been in contact with MGS and Paul Temple. My concern is that there may be changes in these key people prior to any vote. I am not sure but i have a feeling that Paul Temples period of office must be almost at an end (unless extended). Is there a risk that the Chair may change at a critical moment?
MGS has been with AHDB/HGCA for a good many years and is a respected person. However it has been well documented in the press that senior management positions at AHDB are under review; none of us know where that axe might fall. Some big changes to come .........

Hope the axe doesn't fall on Martin. I've found he conducts things in a considered manner and with great integrity. Just good at his job, and switched on.

Not sure when chairmanship changes. Hadn't considered that.

I suppose AHDB have found themselves in the middle of the mess. Still, promotion and market development is part of the AHDB remit, so farmers are going to judge this on results.

AHDB have got a difficult mess to sort out. If they can't get RT/AIC to help then I guess they'll have to sack off RT and set up their own assurance system. You'd think the possibility of that occurring would make AIC/RT change tact.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Tell me what is the wealth of information you are referring to?

I am inclined to agree with you on a lot of information and I definitely appreciate the fungicide research seconded to Adas but a lot of this industry is very mature so I wonder if the budget needs to be so great or is the research as innovative as a that?

Certainly if there is room to pee it away on Red Tractor then there is too much cash about

'This industry is very mature'. I thnk that's a good point. A future AHDB could probably perform readonably well on less levy. Continue with tbe 50% of good stuff, and save the cash from the stuff where they teach us to suck eggs.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Re: your last paragraph.

AHDB have been trying hard to get RT and AIC to fix the problem - Martin Grantley Smith and Paul Temple have been doing what they can in a logical order. Seemingly RT and AIC don't want to change anything (funny that, as they'd lose their income).

AHDB were disappointed at the lack of support from NFU (again, no surprise there, NFU seem to want to reduce the competitiveness of their own farmers).

If AHDB want to work harder and take it upon themselves to help levy payers, after exhausting all avenues with RT/AIC/NFU, then they can create something along the ines of an AHDB branded self-cert assurance based on a pesticide declaration on the grain passport.

If AHDB did that, levy payer funded, then I think AHDB could not only save themselves, but come out looking like heroes, go from strength to strength in the future, and hopefully help UK grain farmers to flourish.

It's possible for AHDB to come out of this VERY WELL. Our suggestion hands them a 'get out of jail for free' card, gifted on a plate.

It would certainly fit the remit of AHDB to set up a self-cert alternative to RT and they are in the perfect position to do so. The only thing that would be difficult is the pressure from RT, NFU and above to not do it although given the statements from them all about the need for assurance and how it is open to competition, they would surely have to support in public.
How could the NFU object to assurance that meets all their principles when they support one that doesn't.

 

[Grass And Grain]

How could the NFU object to assurance that meets all their principles when they support one that doesn't.

^^^ Thought provoking observation.

 

[SilliamWhale]

It would certainly fit the remit of AHDB to set up a self-cert alternative to RT and they are in the perfect position to do so. The only thing that would be difficult is the pressure from RT, NFU and above to not do it although given the statements from them all about the need for assurance and how it is open to competition, they would surely have to support in public.
How could the NFU object to assurance that meets all their principles when they support one that doesn't.

The NFU should be marginalised from assurance anyway. They've already been profoundly deceitful about Red Tractor ownership and are happy for farmers (members or not) to be competitively disadvantaged by RT and remain beholden to a private company for "assurance" which can evolve on a whim.

So the NFU is best ignored on all this and the thrust should still remain to get this AIC / RT cartel removed and without a doubt levy board support removed from them.

If RT charge a premium for RT produce rather than idiotically offering it to the AIC bodies for free then they can earn their stripes. The market can decide then.

 

[T Hectares]

I’m pretty sure that PGRO (pulse growers research organisation) is funded by a voluntary levy whereas AHDB Cereals is compulsory.

PGRO are still around and run excellent events.

Just another perspective.

I take your point but the last PGRO event I attended had been run with Syngenta (presumably to cover the costs) it ruined what would’ve been a good event with commercial infiltration to the point where I nearly walked out at the blatant sales push that left areas of the meeting feeling really tainted
No thanks to the AHDB’s future looking like that !!

 

[Steevo]

I take your point but the last PGRO event I attended had been run with Syngenta (presumably to cover the costs) it ruined what would’ve been a good event with commercial infiltration to the point where I nearly walked out at the blatant sales push that left areas of the meeting feeling really tainted
No thanks to the AHDB’s future looking like that !!

This is true, they do run them alongside Syngenta with sponsorship. Syngenta do seem to be the only chemical company to really invest in getting chemistry approved for pulses.