AHL2 - Winter Bird Food

[Clive]

I am still not sure this sequence is within the 'spirit' of Defra's intentions, but as Janet Hughes no longer engages on TFF I cannot ask her. But to come back to you it looks to me that only two start dates work. March 1st and April 1st. Both ensure the AHL2 Winter seed period which ends February 28th (or 29th in a leap year) and sufficient early for an April sowing of the NUM3.

I then wait to see how Defra react. This approach is now getting plenty of airplay and I have had a few of the farmers I visit express interest and intend taking up this option and sequence.

Cheers.

There is no mention of “spirt” in any stadards i see,. I’m not playing a sport here! It’s a business !

As long as aims ate achieved i see no reasin defra should take issue

i actually thiink thet might like this plan if they trully do want max public goods etc

 

[Clive]

Are you going to have any NUM3 in your initial application for year 1?

Yes - because i will ned an area of num3 each year for the 3 yrs of the agreement

It will need establishung in march 24 - in my case on land current growing osr / beans companion - i will dd the extra species in

osr / beans econimics look marginal on what are currently “nothing special” crops so no great loss turning them into num3

 

[WOODCHIP]

As i read myself and spoke to a friend who does these schemes for farmers said their is no where it says can you follow AHL2 with any other crop , you have to keep that land in that option for 12 months?

 

[BBE]

With the right start date I assume there is nothing to stop you doing an over winter cover crop. Graze with sheep mid Jan or not. Spray off and drill num 3. Total return £722. Less drilling and seed. My concern is getting AHL2 established and producing seed in time following a wheat. Okay so it’s less return but but it easily covers the cost of two passes with the DD, seed and a fair rent and less risky and time consuming than some of the break crops.

I like this idea as I share your concerns over establishment of AHL2.

Agreement start date 1st March, Yr1 SAM2 established in august following WB, Yr2 SAM2 moves to its new location, add NUM3 to agreement to follow SAM2, back into wheat in autumn!

Does this sound feasible?

 

[Clive]

As i read myself and spoke to a friend who does these schemes for farmers said their is no where it says can you follow AHL2 with any other crop , you have to keep that land in that option for 12 months?

he's talkling rubbish frankly

what you have to do is achieve the aims of the standard

 

[Zippy768]

I like this idea as I share your concerns over establishment of AHL2.

Agreement start date 1st March, Yr1 SAM2 established in august following WB, Yr2 SAM2 moves to its new location, add NUM3 to agreement to follow SAM2, back into wheat in autumn!

Does this sound feasible?

Trouble is that's £129/ht vs £750 odd with ahl2.
I share your concerns about establishing the bird feed quick enough after wb, but money talks

 

[Mixedupfarmer]

he's talkling rubbish frankly

what you have to do is achieve the aims of the standard

Few advisors do outside the box thinking on these sort of things.

 

[Clive]

I like this idea as I share your concerns over establishment of AHL2.

Agreement start date 1st March, Yr1 SAM2 established in august following WB, Yr2 SAM2 moves to its new location, add NUM3 to agreement to follow SAM2, back into wheat in autumn!

Does this sound feasible?

doesn't pay enough to get excited about though ?

 

[Zippy768]

As i read myself and spoke to a friend who does these schemes for farmers said their is no where it says can you follow AHL2 with any other crop , you have to keep that land in that option for 12 months?

Your man is absolutely right. Cannot be done......in the same scheme year

 

[Clive]

Your man is absolutely right. Cannot be done......in the same scheme year

yes, agreement start date is REALLY important

 

[Zippy768]

Yes - because i will ned an area of num3 each year for the 3 yrs of the agreement

It will need establishung in march 24 - in my case on land current growing osr / beans companion - i will dd the extra species in

osr / beans econimics look marginal on what are currently “nothing special” crops so no great loss turning them into num3

Surely one would only need 1 single hectare into Num3 rotational in the 1st year.
Rotational guidelines say areas can be larger than the 1st year agreement (no figure) and can also be smaller in subsequent years (but must maintain at least 50% of 1st year quotations)

 

[Nitrams]

Is 2 seperate sfi applications off the same sbi number possible? Could do with 2 differing start dates ideally to make sure my winter cc thats in the ground gets in this winter period but also another start date after the winter period for double option in 1 cropping season flexibility like discussed above.

 

[Steph-a-knee]

Can I have a 4.5 ha block of AHL 2 and keep it down continuously for 3 years? I assume it would need re-seeding at some stage, possibly after year 2. It's not a very productive field. It's heavy ground next to a wood which is why I don't want to keep it in cereal production if there's a better option. Also can I put the whole field in or does it have to be a part field patch?

 

[Hindsight]

Can I have a 4.5 ha block of AHL 2 and keep it down continuously for 3 years? I assume it would need re-seeding at some stage, possibly after year 2. It's not a very productive field. It's heavy ground next to a wood which is why I don't want to keep it in cereal production if there's a better option. Also can I put the whole field in or does it have to be a part field patch?

You can put the whole parcel in for three years continuously, also add IPM4 no insecticide. Renew as you wish to meet aims. Think that is right.

 

[Billboy1]

i honestly think all this arsing about with different start dates is over complicating things just do continues flowers plus no pesticide takes some beating ! i suppose it might different if you've got labour and finance to sort

 

[Clive]

Is 2 seperate sfi applications off the same sbi number possible? Could do with 2 differing start dates ideally to make sure my winter cc thats in the ground gets in this winter period but also another start date after the winter period for double option in 1 cropping season flexibility like discussed above.

my understanding is 1 agreement per holding number but maybe worth checking

 

[4course]

i honestly think all this arsing about with different start dates is over complicating things just do continues flowers plus no pesticide takes some beating ! i suppose it might different if you've got labour and finance to sort

we ended up with a november start date which suits us as whilst in the scheme it was too late to do all in time but still got accepted as got 12 months to comply but will end in nov 26 unless/if we decide to rejoin which gives us the opportunity to alter things or not cos defras winter is dec /jan/feb

 

[Zippy768]

my understanding is 1 agreement per holding number but maybe worth checking

So I couldn't apply for some basic options - hedges, management plans - with a start date of 1st March, then add in other options later on, such as some rotational options?

 

[4course]

So I couldn't apply for some basic options - hedges, management plans - with a start date of 1st March, then add in other options later on, such as some rotational options?

have a read of the sfi answers put out by defra seems to say you can though its not clear to me if it can be done on an ongoing basis or just once a year, but come near the end of yr 1 and yr 2 you can only reduce by a % ( not sure what %)so you could be stuck with something that doesnt work in practice

 

[Clive]

So I couldn't apply for some basic options - hedges, management plans - with a start date of 1st March, then add in other options later on, such as some rotational options?

You could - but you could also apply for those options straight awat and start getting paid as long as you do them in that first year of agreement

this is my understanding ( not advice ) - get defra helpline to confirm