AHL2 - Winter Bird Food

[Steph-a-knee]

I don't think so - think IPM4 is whole parcel and don't think AHL3 qualify

That's what I thought, in which case we'll probably end up ploughing the wet, awkward shaped bits at each end of the field and planting them with AHL2 instead of leaving it to naturally regenerate with grass.

 

[EJS]

That's what I thought, in which case we'll probably end up ploughing the wet, awkward shaped bits at each end of the field and planting them with AHL2 instead of leaving it to naturally regenerate with grass.

Is it an all arable field already? Am wondering how current grassy corners that have been coded as PG01 within arable fields can be changed so whole field options can work - assume a RLE1

 

[Hindsight]

If I have 5ha of AHL2 in a 6 ha field, and AHL3 (grassy field corners) in the remaining 1 ha, can I still claim IPM4 for the 5ha of AHL2?

I don't think so - think IPM4 is whole parcel and don't think AHL3 qualify

The application portal did accept that scenario a couple of days ago when i entered data last week. Check it out yourself on the application portal. Ask the helpline, though that can be bit of a lottery who answers and i call back again if not too sure with the answers.

 

[Hindsight]

Is it an all arable field already? Am wondering how current grassy corners that have been coded as PG01 within arable fields can be changed so whole field options can work - assume a RLE1

There is the new land update hyperlink on the land section of RPA portal.

 

[kit1023]

applied for sfi on wednesday last week, received offer at weekend, accepted today. blimey quick turnaround or what. starting 1st feb

 

[DefenderDave]

This could be a door opener for those intensive systems, like mine (albeit beef). Would be ideal for indoor herds. Grass/legume silage, combined WB or wholecropped wheat. No summers out of production. £300/ac

The devil in me is most amused by the fallout if lowland mixed businesses were to get in on the act.

What options are you doing to get £300/acre? Legumes in grass and over winter cover would only be £100/ acre?

 

[EJS]

What options are you doing to get £300/acre? Legumes in grass and over winter cover would only be £100/ acre?

Is it winter bird food on improved grassland? That £515 ha I think so more like 200 but need seedheads over winter?

 

[e3120]

What options are you doing to get £300/acre? Legumes in grass and over winter cover would only be £100/ acre?

On paper, alternate AHL2 and num3, with ipm3, ipm4, dd'ing & precision farming slipped in where they fit. All important spring start date.

On the ground, alternate winter barley/wholecrop wheat and late summer-sown bird seeds, legumes and westerwolds, repeatedly ensiled to prevent grass weed seed return.

Ambitious on several fronts. I'm only at the imaginative thinking stage.

 

[alomy75]

No specific question (yet) on the webinar regarding the loophole but Jonathan marsden has just said in response to a query about proof and in relation to AHL2, is that he would expect to see seeds over winter…and flowers in the SPRING and summer. May have been a slip of the tongue but it’s clearly not going to be possible when sneaking in AHL2 after winter barley

 

[DieselRob]

No specific question (yet) on the webinar regarding the loophole but Jonathan marsden has just said in response to a query about proof and in relation to AHL2, is that he would expect to see seeds over winter…and flowers in the SPRING and summer. May have been a slip of the tongue but it’s clearly not going to be possible when sneaking in AHL2 after winter barley

That’s the message I took from it as well. I suspect they’ll be working to close that loophole

 

[Hindsight]

On paper, alternate AHL2 and num3, with ipm3, ipm4, dd'ing & precision farming slipped in where they fit. All important spring start date.

On the ground, alternate winter barley/wholecrop wheat and late summer-sown bird seeds, legumes and westerwolds, repeatedly ensiled to prevent grass weed seed return.

Ambitious on several fronts. I'm only at the imaginative thinking stage.

Thats interesting. I am trying to get my head around the sequence.

So will it be the following Year 1: Winter Barley/wholecrop wheat followed by AHL2 sown July carried through into Year until Feb 28th, then NUM3 carried through until August 31st then back to WInter Barley / WInter Wheat? Is that the intended sequence. You say repeated ensiling - in which case when will the NUM3 be allowed to flower during the Sumer months? Cheers.

 

[farmerm]

no - i’m not putting in my application until February as that will give me my desired date. - i’m still in an existing agreement until feb 28th anyway

I thought Janet at one point said you could apply, get an agreement but could sit on it and month or two until you wanted to activate it, is that not the case? Perhaps I dreamt that?

 

[alomy75]

That’s the message I took from it as well. I suspect they’ll be working to close that loophole

I can understand and support them not being too prescriptive; but this is a fairly major issue that needs addressing. It will cost them a lot more money but will deliver a lot more IF done correctly. I’m sure there will be those who do it anyway (the JFDI brigade on here) but for those of us on here who don’t really like bending rules where possible it would be nice to have the matter cleared up one way or the other.

 

[Hindsight]

I thought Janet at one point said you could apply, get an agreement but could sit on it and month or two until you wanted to activate it, is that not the case? Perhaps I dreamt that?

I have had a few client agreements come through. Acceptance date was at the clients discretion. In the case of two Agreements that came through in November, so could have been accepted to start December 1st we delayed acceptance until December 1st, so they became live January 1st. This because the farms had existing CSS Mid Tier agreements with two years to run. Back in November it was unclear if CSS could be merged with SFI (more clarity now, though still not available yet?) and thus it seemed sensible to have Mid Tier and SFI with same start date for management purposes.

 

[DieselRob]

I can understand and support them not being too prescriptive; but this is a fairly major issue that needs addressing. It will cost them a lot more money but will deliver a lot more IF done correctly. I’m sure there will be those who do it anyway (the JFDI brigade on here) but for those of us on here who don’t really like bending rules where possible it would be nice to have the matter cleared up one way or the other.

I think with AHL2 they have made a mistake by saying the AIM is the winter feed and then including the summer flowers as a purpose. Give an inch and some will take a mile.

 

[Against_the_grain]

So was there a definitive answer to the great AHL2 question of fitting it between a cereal crop and following spring cash crop?

 

[DieselRob]

So was there a definitive answer to the great AHL2 question of fitting it between a cereal crop and following spring cash crop?

It wasn’t specifically answered but Jonathan did make reference to it as part of another question saying about winter bird food AND summer flowers

 

[Clive]

I thought Janet at one point said you could apply, get an agreement but could sit on it and month or two until you wanted to activate it, is that not the case? Perhaps I dreamt that?

i think that's the case still - you have to accept the agreement and I guess you can sit ion that acceptance if you wish ?

 

[Clive]

I thought this mornings webinar was good and confirmed a lot of thoughts / discussion on here

they are getting there wilth this and are clearly listening to TFF users feedback

 

[farmerm]

No specific question (yet) on the webinar regarding the loophole but Jonathan marsden has just said in response to a query about proof and in relation to AHL2, is that he would expect to see seeds over winter…and flowers in the SPRING and summer. May have been a slip of the tongue but it’s clearly not going to be possible when sneaking in AHL2 after winter barley

I picked up on that too.. The response was entirely contradictory to the email the RPA sent me which says purpose is purpose and summer flowers are not a contractual requirement for AHL2!!



"Thank you for your email of 08/01/2023 about the contractual obligations carried by the purposes laid out in the 2023 SFI Handbook.

I can clarify that purpose is not a contractually binding part of the obligation, it is to provide context for why the action is being carried out. Some of the purposes will not always be applicable, and the purposes can include benefits that go beyond the parcel itself.

In the example given of AHL2, the aim is confined to having "areas of winter bird food that produce a supply of small seeds for smaller farmland birds from late autumn until late winter".

I can clarify that purpose is not a contractually binding part of the obligation, it is to provide context for why the action is being carried out. Some of the purposes will not always be applicable, and the purposes can include benefits that go beyond the parcel itself.

In the example given of AHL2, the aim is confined to having "areas of winter bird food that produce a supply of small seeds for smaller farmland birds from late autumn until late winter".

To respond to your specific question, to meet the aims of AHL2 it is necessary to have a reasonable expectation of encouraging flowering before the end of August? The answer is no.

More information
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Yours sincerely


Chris Vickers
Sustainable Farming Incentive Operations"