Air rifle for vermin control - advice please.

[roscoe erf]

Rant - sorry! It’s a miserable day outside so I’m in the office polishing paperwork for a forthcoming FA inspection. The paperwork required for vermin control seems to have become quite daft and onerous- with site surveys,environmental risk assessments (including justification of your use of bait over traps or ‘improved hygiene’ (?! *sniffs*), justification of bait choice, list of environmental risks and steps taken to reduce those risks, how you intend to dispose of rodent carcasses and how you intend to dispose of spent bait etc),written consideration of non-target animals, justification of coshh assessments. This is in addition to the site maps and recording of baiting and bait inspections I’ve been used to in the past.

It just all seems like a right mess to me - I’ve got two degrees and I’m not sure how exactly what records I should be keeping - even the red tractor templates seem to miss out some of the info they tell you is required elsewhere (eg surveying and risk assessing populations of non-target species ???).
As far as I understood, in the past even if you had no vermin about the place you were supposed to keep a bait point or two around the place to kill anything drifting in and to monitor for problems but now you’re not supposed to keep permanent bait points. I’m finding this a bit like Orwellian Doublethink.
Above all I’m thinking this just seems like a waste of my time - I doubt my cattle or grain are going to be worth any more for having spent hours properly filling in forms and god knows how long assessing populations of non-target species and writing a bit of an essay about it. I mean I doubt that the people that scatter poison in hedges are going to write in the record that they do that are they?

I’m considering getting some kind of air rifle with night vision and not bothering anymore with baiting. We never have much of a rat problem in the buildings - mainly outside yards, straw stacks, silage bales etc. I haven’t done any research so far and I was wondering what advice you have - what kind of kit you’d recommend, what to avoid and so on. I have an FAC so I suppose I could get a more powerful air rifle (wouldn’t want to go round the buildings with a .22 though!)
I don’t have a budget in mind, but I suppose I could afford to spend a bit taking into account how expensive rat poison is, the fact that even with FA we may have to do a course in bait use in future, and the big plus of sidestepping the majority of the FA vermin control paperwork, which just seems to mention baits and traps.

big question is how do rt view this as an acceptable vermin control

 

[hendrebc]

Farm assurance inspector told me seeing the terrier outside and saying i had a shotgun and FAC was enough didnt need any maps or anything. Im sheep and beef though they are probably more keen wjth arable and dairy id imagine

 

[happycows]

big question is how do rt view this as an acceptable vermin control

Didn’t bat a eyelid at what I was doing to control rats. The lot was there on the side in the office and there was no visible signs of rats.

 

[slackjawedyokel]

Farm assurance inspector told me seeing the terrier outside and saying i had a shotgun and FAC was enough didnt need any maps or anything. Im sheep and beef though they are probably more keen wjth arable and dairy id imagine

Didn’t bat a eyelid at what I was doing to control rats. The lot was there on the side in the office and there was no visible signs of rats.

Goes to show the difference between different inspectors - ours always looks at my baiting records- I’m surprised he’s never audited them to tally how much bait I’ve bought with how much I’ve used. Perhaps it’s only a matter of time...

 

[steveR]

Another thing is, if you shoot any rats (and it probably would just be rats - we haven’t had an issue with mice for years), just how much paperwork will the FA inspector be expecting?
I’m thinking they might still want a Site Survey (fair enough - just stick on a map when you see rat droppings then have-at-them with the air rifle). I’d be hoping they wouldn’t want further paperwork.
Our inspector has a nasty habit of requiring bits of paperwork that I don’t think are strictly necessary but which I go along with for an easy life. For example he always wants to see my wheat mycotoxin risk assessment when I only grow oats and barley. I go along with it as it takes only minutes to fill out but I’m stuffed if I’m filling all these daft forms out if I’m shooting the rats.

Inspector: fx.....Big intake of breath.

"Well Mr Yokel, I am pleased with the Inspection I have carried out today, however, you have not shown me the Carcase disposal records for the rats you claim to have shot, or indeed the headage count on a per day basis that must tally with disposal records and the ammunition used. "

"No Mr Yokel, thowing them on the Barn roof for the crows is not deemed acceptable by RT, and I must point out that neither have you shown that you are using a non-toxic ammunition for environmental safety.... "

the sound of gently despairing sobbing is heard from a corner......

 

[Wombat]

Farm assurance inspector told me seeing the terrier outside and saying i had a shotgun and FAC was enough didnt need any maps or anything. Im sheep and beef though they are probably more keen wjth arable and dairy id imagine

It applies to both and for 2018 you need to do the site survey and risk assessment regardless or you will get a 28 day notice

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

So if you shot the rats, would you then need a receipt from the kennels covering you for carcase disposal?

 

[hendrebc]

It applies to both and for 2018 you need to do the site survey and risk assessment regardless or you will get a 28 day notice

Ffs

 

[Pasty]

Just say you don't have rats because of all the owls around and keep the airgun in a concealed place which you should really anyway. End of story. Then go have some fun.

 

[Gong Farmer]

So if you shot the rats, would you then need a receipt from the kennels covering you for carcase disposal?

Either that or a death certificate for each, from a vet

 

[slackjawedyokel]

It applies to both and for 2018 you need to do the site survey and risk assessment regardless or you will get a 28 day notice

Really?
I'm looking at the standards on vermin control (which are mercifully brief compared to the records you seem to be expected to keep when baiting).
Part VC.a starts Systems must be in place to control vermin in areas where livestock and feed are kept.
You need : Evidence that control is effective and being managed eg. there is no evidence of contamination by vermin. Systems include, but are not limited to, baiting and trapping... etc etc.
Part VC.b starts Bait must be used responsibly. Prior to treatment with baits, a written site survey and environmental risk assessment is undertaken in accordance with Appendix. etc.

My reading of that is that, if you shoot to control vermin you can sidestep much of the paperwork. To produce evidence that control is effective, a site survey should be more than sufficient as it shows you're looking for evidence of vermin. If you find any evidence, your action is to go out at night and shoot rats. I don't see that the rules require any environmental risk assessment.

 

[slackjawedyokel]

How are you supposed to answer a question like "Is there a significant risk to human health and/or animal health presented by a possible future infestation?"

 

[HDAV]

Yes, but... be sure your air rifle is in your gun safe for inspections, it's a good policy anyway and just good drills.

If you have under 18's at home or regularly visit then it's almost a requirement now to have them locked up albeit not in an FAC rated cabinet worth checking it fits as a PPCP with NV and IR can be a big ungainly lump.


Anyone use .22 shots shell or floberts for rats?

 

[wr.]

Air Arms S300 here with a Starlight Archer NV. Good fun in the long winter evenings and extremely satisfying. FA inspector was happy with that.

 

[steveR]

22 shot shell were a joke when I tried them, maybe at 2ft range... ;-)

 

[slackjawedyokel]

Still trying to fill out the risk assessment for using bait - "How will you dispose of rodent carcases?", How will you dispose of spent bait"?

Look at the label:

Dispose of dead rodents in accordance with local requirements. Poisoned rodents may be disposed of by the waste producer at an incinerator or landfill permitted to accept that type of waste, or collected by a registered waste carrier and taken for disposal at a suitably permitted site. Remove all baits after treatment and dispose of them in accordance with local requirements.

Really?
Really really?
Do all other farmers out there now swing into action when they find a dead rat and arrange for an appropriate waste carrier to convey dead rodent to a place where it may be incinerated (with the required permits and in accordance with all local requirements??

I presume the "right" answer is to write that dead rats will be handed over to a registered waste carrier and leave it at that, but (serious question) what DO you other farmers do?

 

[hendrebc]

Still trying to fill out the risk assessment for using bait - "How will you dispose of rodent carcases?", How will you dispose of spent bait"?

Look at the label:

Dispose of dead rodents in accordance with local requirements. Poisoned rodents may be disposed of by the waste producer at an incinerator or landfill permitted to accept that type of waste, or collected by a registered waste carrier and taken for disposal at a suitably permitted site. Remove all baits after treatment and dispose of them in accordance with local requirements.

Really?
Really really?
Do all other farmers out there now swing into action when they find a dead rat and arrange for an appropriate waste carrier to convey dead rodent to a place where it may be incinerated (with the required permits and in accordance with all local requirements??

I presume the "right" answer is to write that dead rats will be handed over to a registered waste carrier and leave it at that, but (serious question) what DO you other farmers do?

Not use poison because of rules like this. Hence the terrier

 

[slackjawedyokel]

Not use poison because of rules like this. Hence the terrier

Think I’ll pop along to the local gun room tomorrow!

 

[steveR]

Not use poison because of rules like this. Hence the terrier

As in.... the terrier eats the rat?

They surely cannot require the same level of disposal as Yokel describes above for a naturally killed rat, but you never can underestimate the FA wallahs....

 

[Landy Nick]

Most pcp's these days are pretty good, have several makes of pcp's here.
A good all rounder would be an air arms S410k. Also BSA are good something like an R10, Ultra or Scorpion 10 shot.
Yes a dive bottle is better then a stirrup pump. If using a pump, the idea is to not let the rifle get too low. So a lessor workout is needed to get back upto pressure.