Alarming aspirations from latest climate report...

[yellow belly]

has the reduction of meat eating campaigners and report writers considered the view that many people will ignore these issues and keep visiting the burger chains
education has spent the last 20 years preaching that you need a healthy diet
judging by the constant stream of cars visiting Macdonald’s people will take a lot of convincing

the liberal elite in their ivory towers were very shocked when a democratic referendum voted for brexit
same with the the last uk election

round Here the alternative to arable cropping is wild Deer where they are not controlled

 

[DaveGrohl]

It's pointless going onto vegan forums, they're beyond help truly. It's the general public I'm more interested as they're bombarded with utter guff at all times. You can't blame them for going with the general concensus as they don't have the time to actually check up on facts. The trouble is the media who will gleefully report any old cr@p as their job is to report anything they can. We all have a resposibilty in that regard but it's difficult to make a dent against the combined forces of the likes of the vegans that run the BBC, Bill Gates, James Cameron and the rest of the money brigade.

Then we have the other huge problem that govts listen to "scientific committees" who don't appear to have any sitting mathematicians or proper scientists.

 

[egbert]

For those who don't know - and I didn't until this thread - this is Joseph Poore. Advisor to the CCC.

as the yoof say... OMG!

It's hard to know where to start - in fact, I won't. I'll merely point out that he's including the carbon released by clearing Brazilian rainforest in the UK's figures.
Well it's easy to fix that....stop the importation of anything raised/grown in Brazil.
It won't stop the deforestation....but then, I don't know that he really expects that. He just wants you to be like him. (I won't ever be like him)

 

[delilah]

Feels like "preaching to the converted" discussing on TFF, wish I had the skills, time, energy & patients to discuss on vegan forums.

I don't see these threads as being directly relevant to veganism. Rather, they are sending a message to all of the NFU lurkers on here:
EXTRACT YOUR DIGITS. STOP APOLOGIZING FOR COWS. DO YOUR JOB. TELL GOVERNMENT THAT EVERYTHING THE CCC HAS TOLD THEM IS BOLLOX.

 

[white_stuffed]

I've read that the 6th IPCC report due in 2022 will use e GWP* for methane....

Where did you read that, @holwellcourtfarm I've searched everywhere but not found it

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

I don't see these threads as being directly relevant to veganism. Rather, they are sending a message to all of the NFU lurkers on here:
EXTRACT YOUR DIGITS. STOP APOLOGIZING FOR COWS. DO YOUR JOB. TELL GOVERNMENT THAT EVERYTHING THE CCC HAS TOLD THEM IS BOLLOX.

Well perhaps not everything, but keeping an open mind would help....

And presenting stuff in a fair and rational way. Casually remarking that he had glyphosate and pyrethroid poisoning last year for a start. Really?? What were the symptoms, what was the source, what did the doctor say? I know chemicals are generally not good but that sounds like an exaggeration to say the least.

 

[DaveGrohl]

Well perhaps not everything, but keeping an open mind would help....

And presenting stuff in a fair and rational way. Casually remarking that he had glyphosate and pyrethroid poisoning last year for a start. Really?? What were the symptoms, what was the source, what did the doctor say? I know chemicals are generally not good but that sounds like an exaggeration to say the least.

And let's face it, VERY specific.

 

[Top Tip.]

That would be Christ Stark, and he's certainly not a scientist. He studied "law and finance" at UoG and UoE.

He is one that is well and truly on the gravy train,an unadulterated twit would be my description of him. He spoke at a conference up here last year. Plant the whole lot in trees was his answer. No word of how it was going to affect local communities just as long as he got his two foreign holidays a year. He is very eloquent and contributes a lot to global warming with the amount of hot air he expels. Can you tell I don’t like him ??

 

[delilah]

It is worth pondering on what the Poore Professor said on that video:

"The UK's greenhouse emissions would fall by a quarter" (if we all went vegan)

The fact that he is such a loon is a good thing. It makes it easier to discredit the CCC advice to Government regarding reductions in meat and dairy. All we need - all lol - is a body to get that message across to Govt.

 

[Swarfmonkey]

The fact that he is such a loon is a good thing. It makes it easier to discredit the CCC advice to Government regarding reductions in meat and dairy.

Wish I could upvote that more than once. His figures are (demonstrably) absolute b0ll0cks. Organisations like the NFU need to pull their fingers out and go on the offensive and call him out, publicly, every time he spews more of his bullsh!t (pun not intended).

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Wish I could upvote that more than once. His figures are (demonstrably) absolute b0ll0cks. Organisations like the NFU need to pull their fingers out and go on the offensive and call him out, publicly, every time he spews more of his bullsh!t (pun not intended).

The grazing animal argument is not heard enough

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Where did you read that, @holwellcourtfarm I've searched everywhere but not found it

It was about mid October and I've done around 10 webinars and multiple zoom meetings since then. I'll try to find the link, I've most likely bookmarked it. It might even have been one of our CIWEM ones....

I am certainly electing the 6th report to accept that methane should be assessed using GWP*. That could prove very awkward for some government approaches including the UK and NZ.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

For those who don't know - and I didn't until this thread - this is Joseph Poore. Advisor to the CCC.

Here you go, Have a look at these discussions of Mr Poore's work and share them widely:

EAT-Lancet’s Environmental Claims are an Epic Fail – and the Commission Knows It

The “universal healthy reference diet” proposed by the EAT commission drastically reduces the amount of meat – especially red meat – and animal products, giving us something that is about as close as one can get to veganism without being all-out vegan. Exaggerating cattle's impact on the...

clear.ucdavis.edu

Scrutinise the small print of Eat-Lancet

The much-promoted Eat-Lancet report fails on nutritional grounds and has a vested interest in switching us to plant-based eating, writes food journalist Joanna Blythman

wickedleeks.riverford.co.uk

 

[delilah]

Here you go, Have a look at these discussions of Mr Poore's work and share them widely:

EAT-Lancet’s Environmental Claims are an Epic Fail – and the Commission Knows It

The “universal healthy reference diet” proposed by the EAT commission drastically reduces the amount of meat – especially red meat – and animal products, giving us something that is about as close as one can get to veganism without being all-out vegan. Exaggerating cattle's impact on the...

clear.ucdavis.edu

Scrutinise the small print of Eat-Lancet

The much-promoted Eat-Lancet report fails on nutritional grounds and has a vested interest in switching us to plant-based eating, writes food journalist Joanna Blythman

wickedleeks.riverford.co.uk

Love Joanna Blythman.
I don't think we need to share them beyond you having put them on here. The people who matter, from the NFU and our other representative bodies, will be reading this. They know that they are currently showing dereliction of duty in allowing our industry to be treated in this way. It's in their court now.

 

[Suffolk Serf]

The NFU has been very poorly advised on their whole stance on climate change. From their support for crop fed AD plants and straw burning power stations to their almost total ignoring of the role that agriculture can play in harnessing natural processes to capture carbon.
They seriously need to review the whole situation. I know that at least two of the "top table" fully understand this, they need to stand up to one or two of the backroom advisors.

 

[delilah]

The grazing animal argument is not heard enough

Am going to pick up on that, because it is relevant to the NFU representation of the industry.

A cow in a field is not destroying the planet. And neither is a cow in a shed.
I have grave reservations about the phrase that keeps cropping up: It's not the cow, it's the how.

It's not the cow. And it's not the how.
It's the planes, trains and automobiles.

You can put all of the UK's cows indoors for a year, and you can put them all outside for the next year, and you wont make a jot of difference to the greenhouse gas emissions of UK plc.

All of which is relevant to the role of the NFU, because as is often correctly pointed out the NFU has to represent all sectors of UK ag and not just those who farm in a certain way. Representing all of the UK livestock industry is no problem at all, because there is nothing wrong our side of the farm gate however we choose to manage our stock.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Am going to pick up on that, because it is relevant to the NFU representation of the industry.

A cow in a field is not destroying the planet. And neither is a cow in a shed.
I have grave reservations about the phrase that keeps cropping up: It's not the cow, it's the how.

It's not the cow. And it's not the how.
It's the planes, trains and automobiles.

You can put all of the UK's cows indoors for a year, and you can put them all outside for the next year, and you wont make a jot of difference to the greenhouse gas emissions of UK plc.

All of which is relevant to the role of the NFU, because as is often correctly pointed out the NFU has to represent all sectors of UK ag and not just those who farm in a certain way. Representing all of the UK livestock industry is no problem at all, because there is nothing wrong our side of the farm gate however we choose to manage our stock.

I disagree that "there is nothing wrong our side of the farm gate" (leaching of fertiliser and excessive tractor use for example) but it's climate impact is minute compared to the impact of road transport and heating buildings. They are where the big changes are needed.

Once policymakers start to understand GWP* then livestock will no longer be on the radar.

Methane IS a big deal but only where it's emission is increasing (Oil and gas industry, fertiliser industry, landfills, mains gas leaks, rice paddies, melting permafrost and cattle in South America).

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Love Joanna Blythman.
I don't think we need to share them beyond you having put them on here. The people who matter, from the NFU and our other representative bodies, will be reading this. They know that they are currently showing dereliction of duty in allowing our industry to be treated in this way. It's in their court now.

Zoe Harcombe is brilliant too!

 

[DaveGrohl]

Here you go, Have a look at these discussions of Mr Poore's work and share them widely:

EAT-Lancet’s Environmental Claims are an Epic Fail – and the Commission Knows It

The “universal healthy reference diet” proposed by the EAT commission drastically reduces the amount of meat – especially red meat – and animal products, giving us something that is about as close as one can get to veganism without being all-out vegan. Exaggerating cattle's impact on the...

clear.ucdavis.edu

Scrutinise the small print of Eat-Lancet

The much-promoted Eat-Lancet report fails on nutritional grounds and has a vested interest in switching us to plant-based eating, writes food journalist Joanna Blythman

wickedleeks.riverford.co.uk

Frank Mitloehner should be on speedial for the NFU etc instead of the idiots currently advising them. I do find his language unbelievably restrained. I for one wouldn't be using words like sketchy when talking to the people responsible for this garbage.

 

[delilah]

Pleased to say that Joseph Poore replied to my email, where I asked for clarification on how going vegan would cut UK GHG emissions by 25%.
Below his reply, I have to admit that I got lost in trying to follow the links but am sure that's my failing.


If you go to the bottom of this page, https://planetbaseddiets.panda.org/national-impacts, you can download an Excel file. In that file, if you select “United Kingdom” as the country, that will do all the calculations for you for different diets. It uses the same data as the BBC calculator which was from our 2018 paper. However the numbers in the Excel are specific to the UK. The BBC numbers are global. The BBC calculator was translated into different languages so they made the numbers global.



Note – these numbers are for food consumption. The UK imports a LOT of its food – more than many countries. So we effectively import the environmental impacts of deforestation in Brazil or in Indonesia. As the BBC made clear, GHG emissions and other environmental impacts of imported foods tend to be higher than domestic production. Therefore if you want to divide our GHG emissions for food consumption by total UK consumption emissions, you need to compare to these numbers: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uks-carbon-footprint.