Allied Mills screwing farmers over with dodgy claims?

[Hampton]

This video appeared on Twitter today:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1311646740769107969

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If this account is accurate, this is so damaging to the trust that farmers place in the end user to act as an honest judge of the delivered produce. The problem is that they are not an impartial judge insofar as they stand to lose or benefit depending on their assessment of the sample.

The results of the mycotoxin test are outstanding, but that's really not the point. The point is they said the load had been rejected for ergot when they now accept there wasn't any ergot in it. Unless there is some credible refutation of this claim forthcoming, a reasonable conclusion is one of dishonesty. I will wait until for the fullness of time to reveal all the relevant facts, but this deeply troubles me.

It defo happens.
Frontier rep (I’m going to name him personally although he has since retired) rang me On a wednesday and said “your lorry of milling wheat had a magical mystery tour around Manchester on Friday”
I was surprised as it was the last load of a 250t heap of which 200t went with another merchant, all checked and tested.
I should have known something was fishy as he didn’t want to buy the milling wheat but some feed (I only sold his load the week prior).
Anyway it turned out that my milling wheat had gone to ranks, got rejected (supposedly) they tried to tip it in Cerestar (without informing me) but cerestar broke down, so the took it to Allied where it sailed through!
I think they tried to take it direct to cerestar, but had to divert. They still charged me £2/t redirection fee though.
As I say, all the rest of the heap had gone with a different merchant with no claims.

it’s a very murky business

 

[Feldspar]

Happens all time - saw it happen lots when we ran trucks - mills consistently over ordered and if everything was ok and turned up on time they would run out of bin space and just reject. not only costing the farmer but messing up haulage plans completely adding cost to a marginal job

A load we were delivering once got rejected before it arrived at the mill ! ...... that was rather embarrassing for them !

So what do you do for the grain you sell? Do you have an automated sampling machine?

 

[Goweresque]

Never understood what the point of keeping samples is? If someone sends a load off at 18%, full of ergot, rat s**t, weevil and pink grains and it gets rejected, when the farmer shows them his little bag of beautiful golden dry plump grain with no impurities whatsoever, are the mill going to turn around and say "oh yeah sorry mate I see what you mean, it was lovely stuff after all"?
Obviously some aspect I'm missing?

And the converse is just as true, when the farmer sends off a load of perfect grain and the mill says its sample is full of cr@p and under spec, why should the farmer believe them?

The trouble with this system is that both parties have the incentive to cheat, but only one has the final say. There needs to be a system put into the standard contract that means if the end user is caught out cheating they have to pay hefty penalties. That would mean that farmers who were sure their grain was up to spec would be more likely to demand a rejected load came home, so that it could be tested by an independent third party, and the appropriate penalties applied. And mills would thus be less likely to try it on as they'd be risking getting a penalty. As it is there is absolutely no incentive for a mill not to cheat. Even if they get caught there's no financial consequences.

 

[CPF]

Must be 20 years ago now, I had a load rejected while I was still loading it. Call came through and said it couldn’t be mine as truck still on the farm

Bg

We had the same happened to us , And also potatoes going into McCains

 

[steveR]

Reading threads like this make me sooooo happy I no longer deal with Millers and Maltsters!

Like others, I have had the call to say a load at random, had been rejected, but they would "take it as feed a favour with a 15 quid deduction".

"Nah say's I, send it back, I'll pay the haulage". I knew the driver well as he did private work for us.

"Oh", responds the Merchant 30 mins later, "the driver has tipped already"

He hadn't tipped as a quick call had found out.... he was still at the Maltsters, and about to tip, and not for feed.

My call back to the Merchant was less than friendly and we "agreed" that no deductions would be made.

 

[nick...]

Only grow feed here for reasons encountered above
nick...

 

[An Gof]

And the converse is just as true, when the farmer sends off a load of perfect grain and the mill says its sample is full of cr@p and under spec, why should the farmer believe them?

The trouble with this system is that both parties have the incentive to cheat, but only one has the final say. There needs to be a system put into the standard contract that means if the end user is caught out cheating they have to pay hefty penalties. That would mean that farmers who were sure their grain was up to spec would be more likely to demand a rejected load came home, so that it could be tested by an independent third party, and the appropriate penalties applied. And mills would thus be less likely to try it on as they'd be risking getting a penalty. As it is there is absolutely no incentive for a mill not to cheat. Even if they get caught there's no financial consequences.

There is a system in place in the currentAIC contracts. It’s the arbitration mechanism. But it’s not the easiest tool to use and comes at a price.

 

[Timbo1080]

Given the hassle for the hauliers in all of this, ive always been of the opinion that the drivers of the lorries should witness a farmer sample being taken at outloading, and authenticate it, and do the same at intake at the mill......The drivers are possibly the most impartial party in this situation. Mycotoxin tests would obviously be difficult, but a large proportion of the varying claims of the mills would be put to bed on the weighbridge without too much time being lost for the haulier. I appreciate that this isn't in the remit of the driver, and there would be lots of issues with making this happen, but its got to be better than the status quo. My godfather used to follow every lorry to the mill, when he farmed in Kent.....But he was a slipper farmer, so had the time.

 

[Chae1]

Only grow feed here for reasons encountered above
nick...

Do they not charge moisture deductions?

 

[Feldspar]

Given the hassle for the hauliers in all of this, ive always been of the opinion that the drivers of the lorries should witness a farmer sample being taken at outloading, and authenticate it, and do the same at intake at the mill......The drivers are possibly the most impartial party in this situation. Mycotoxin tests would obviously be difficult, but a large proportion of the varying claims of the mills would be put to bed on the weighbridge without too much time being lost for the haulier. I appreciate that this isn't in the remit of the driver, and there would be lots of issues with making this happen, but its got to be better than the status quo. My godfather used to follow every lorry to the mill, when he farmed in Kent.....But he was a slipper farmer, so had the time.

How about using the same haulier and selling on a delivered basis? I know @Banana Bar does this (I think?) - do you find your friendly haulier helps you avoid situations like this?

 

[Timbo1080]

How about using the same haulier and selling on a delivered basis? I know @Banana Bar does this (I think?) - do you find your friendly haulier helps you avoid situations like this?

Very, very seldom have a problem, but don't often grow Milling Spec to be fair (Grow GP1 & 2 but treat it as feed, and if there's demand will sell as 12%+). Usually talk very thoroughly to our merchant about our milling spec before committing to sell any as the mill is quite a haul away, and rejection would destroy the premium. I also usually specify whom I would like our grain to be hauled by, and yes, they are very helpful in avoiding disputes...They know that i will always tell them if i have any suspicion that a load might be borderline, so if i haven't mentioned it, they will argue the toss for me at the intake destination.

 

[Feldspar]

On the flip side, it would be very useful to hear about end users (or merchants) who are exemplars of probity.

 

[MrNoo]

Did have one load rejected from Allied this year re protein, it was a Friday, all previous loads fine and since been fine. Stuff tested at 14.5-15.5% protein, tested by two merchants with pretty much the same result.
I found the maltsters were the worse, constant run around. Know of a chap locally who sent a large amount on the one day, due to send same again next day to be told in the morning the previous 8 loads had gone as feed instead of malt, he loaded and followed the lorry down as the drivers had said they had been tipping down the malt hatch. Anyway they ended up settling out of court and it was all hushed up to a degree. So it does happen

 

[Brisel]

Well done @agricontract for Tweeting this

Because I’m argumentative, here’s the mill’s position, though not in this case:

The mills book 10 loads a day because 1 or 2 won’t turn up because the farmer can’t load due to being away, broken down, shooting etc or the haulier has had a breakdown, traffic jam, was booked late or had a redirection on the previous load. When all 10 turn up they haven’t got room for it all so they reject a couple.

Is that right? No. Should the farmer or haulier or merchant pick up the tab? No. Should the mill have extra buffer storage? Yes, even if that means forging a relationship with a local farmer or store who could fill a gap at short notice or take in an excess load, where building more bins on site isn’t an option.

 

[marcot]

Well done @agricontract for Tweeting this [emoji106]

Because I’m argumentative, here’s the mill’s position, though not in this case:

The mills book 10 loads a day because 1 or 2 won’t turn up because the farmer can’t load due to being away, broken down, shooting etc or the haulier has had a breakdown, traffic jam, was booked late or had a redirection on the previous load. When all 10 turn up they haven’t got room for it all so they reject a couple. Is that right? No. Should the farmer or haulier or merchant pick up the tab? No.

Isn't that the low cost airlines business model as well? However in their case if they bump you off your flight they re book you on an alternative flight and pay for any overnight accommodation. They don't just send you home and say tough sh!t ....

 

[Hampton]

Isn't that the low cost airlines business model as well? However in their case if they bump you off your flight they re book you on an alternative flight and pay for any overnight accommodation. They don't just send you home and say tough sh!t ....

And charge you for the privilege

 

[Hampton]

On the flip side, it would be very useful to hear about end users (or merchants) who are exemplars of probity.

In my experience, I find certain merchants seem to have better relationships with mills so cause me less problems.
I tend to send my milling wheat through grainlink for this reason. Shropshire grain that they started from had very strong links with the Manc Mills

 

[nick...]

Do they not charge moisture deductions?

Yes if it’s over required moisture.
nick...

 

[Steevo]

I send some of my borderline grain through a local merchant so the lorry can drop by their depot on the way for testing.

It’s an ideal setup from my perspective.

 

[Brisel]

I send some of my borderline grain through a local merchant so the lorry can drop by their depot on the way for testing.

It’s an ideal setup from my perspective.

I hope you send some of your better quality stuff to them too!